Banjooie
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Right. So, I decide to get with the times and download 2.07 and update my copy of JtRH. It's probably notable that I don't own it, and I'm playing the demo. (Alas, I have yet to find a suck---I mean, handy person to purchase it for me that I can reimburse.)

I download the new install, and overwrite my old one. Makes sense, right. It did, however, utterly fail to warn me that I ought to be exporting my holds and player data before doing so.

For you see, I open up my new JtRH, now with shiny 2.07 goodness, installed to the same folder as 2.06, and it asks me to find my player file. No problem, I consider! It can't be far! A thorough search of my various DROD folders reveals no player file, and my hold-in-progress is equally nowhere to be found.

I won't pretend I'd done more than a few rooms on my hold, but I've lost a good deal of holds that I've beaten, and even though I don't have CaravelNet, that's still kind of irritating.

I don't really know if this is a feature request or a bug, but I really don't think it ought to be this way. Either, like, warn that we need to export first, or make it so that we don't have to. Whichever works.

[Edited by mrimer at Local Time:05-25-2005 at 05:10 PM: tweaked thread desc]

Oneiromancer
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Well...first of all, you shouldn't have to export and reimport your player file, so I'd say it's a bug that you lost your progress for sure. However, when things like this are involved, paranoia is always a healthy attitude to cultivate. Nothing's perfect, and it's always possible that some strange bug happened that only affected you. Since...I'd really expect other people to have experienced this, since the patch has been out since yesterday.

But, just to make sure...you did install the demo patch, and not the full patch, right?

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Banjooie
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I downloaded the demo installation program off caravelgames.com, is what I did. Since I couldn't see the patch at the time.

silver
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So, uh, you reinstalled the demo on top of the old one. That should pretty much wipe things out, yah.

In Mike's post where he said "the patch is now out" he had links to "use this file if you have the full version" and "use this file if you have the demo"... those were the only "upgrade" paths to 2.0.7.

Using the "first time installer" was pretty much gonna kill things (though it might be nice if it had a pop up "do you really want to install from scratch over a preexisting installation? if you meant to upgrade, say 'no' and get the right file.") Though the way people treat popups on installers, I'm not sure that would really fix it, either.



[Edited by silver at Local Time:05-25-2005 at 09:35 AM]

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Banjooie
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Alright, let's say I don't surf these mighty forums.

You find me any proof of the existence of these patches, without checking the forum, and you'll see my point, here.

What's more, a lot of installation programs check data like that and ask to overwrite, (I could reinstall Warcraft III over itself until kingdom come, and I'd still have my single-player campaign data), so if you'd please not act like I'm mildly mentally deficient for doing so, it'd be appreciated. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but yeah.

But I'll say it again, just to be clear.
www.caravelgames.com has no mention of the JtRH patches. If I wasn't on this forum, I wouldn't even know it was patched.

Oneiromancer
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The news marquee that scrolls on the bottom of the title screen says that version 2.0.7 is out, and gives a link to the patch page here. I agree there should be a more obvious link to the patch page from the main web page, but considering that those playing the game are the most interested in the patch, having the news marquee announce it is reasonable too.

(Note: if the news marquee doesn't work in the demo version, then I apologize. But I'm pretty sure it does, provided you don't disable the Internet settings.)

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

mrimer
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Banjooie wrote:
What's more, a lot of installation programs check data like that and ask to overwrite, (I could reinstall Warcraft III over itself until kingdom come, and I'd still have my single-player campaign data), so if you'd please not act like I'm mildly mentally deficient for doing so, it'd be appreciated. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but yeah.

Yeah, that's definitely a good idea...I'll improve future installers so they at least warn you on install if you're about to overwrite existing data files. Hmm...maybe we'll come up with a much better solution for DROD 3.

But I'll say it again, just to be clear.
www.caravelgames.com has no mention of the JtRH patches. If I wasn't on this forum, I wouldn't even know it was patched.

Click on News, and there's a patch link right at the top. I hope we get a much more prominent link on the JtRH page or something, though.

____________________________
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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Banjooie
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okay, admittedly, but if I don't see it, a lot of other people won't. <_<

And, you know. at least I can import from DROD:AE this time and I forgot before, so.

silver
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I certainly didn't mean to imply insult, sir.

I did speak from "too much knowledge", though.

In many games, the save data is external files. No reason not to just leave those lying around on upgrade. In DROD, the save data is in a database. Part of the install is putting in a new, clean (and known stable!) database. If it were not, then you couldn't guarantee functionality after reinstall (what if their DB is corrupt?). So the installer for DROD is more like installing a new OS (which always starts by formatting the HD, or at least the relevant partitions) and less like installing a regular game.

That's not necessarily intuitive. A fix might be to have the "fresh installer" include a utility to see if your DB is consistent and ask you if you want to keep it if it is?


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AlefBet
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silver wrote:
That's not necessarily intuitive. A fix might be to have the "fresh installer" include a utility to see if your DB is consistent and ask you if you want to keep it if it is?

That's not necessarily useful either, though. The database might be completely consistent and still, say, not have JtRH in it.

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gamer_extreme_101
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mrimer wrote:

Banjooie wrote:
But I'll say it again, just to be clear.
www.caravelgames.com has no mention of the JtRH patches. If I wasn't on this forum, I wouldn't even know it was patched.

Click on News, and there's a patch link right at the top. I hope we get a much more prominent link on the JtRH page or something, though.

Yes, but you must note that it says "April 15th, 2005", meaning that someone could have looked over it thinking that it was just the 2.0.5 patch and nothing more, rather than if it was a new entry that said the 2.0.7 patch was out.

And in regards to paranoia, I think I am the new king of that. After reconquoring JtRH after losing all my data, I quickly exported my player and shipped it to a floppy disk, my dad's computer, and to my MP3 player along with saving it twice on my hard drive. Believe me, you can never have to may copies of it.

[Edited by gamer_extreme_101 at Local Time:05-25-2005 at 11:00 PM]

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Banjooie
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Oh, another thing. If you have the demo for JtRH, and not the full version, you don't get a news marquee.

mrimer
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Banjooie wrote:
Oh, another thing. If you have the demo for JtRH, and not the full version, you don't get a news marquee.

What do you mean? If you enable Connect to CaravelNet in your player settings, then the marquee doesn't show up?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Banjooie
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Okay, so, I'm stupid. :O I was unaware you could connect to CaravelNet without a name/key. (Which, well, I don't have.)

patmo98
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Banjooie wrote:
Okay, so, I'm stupid. :O I was unaware you could connect to CaravelNet without a name/key.

I thought that this was true too. I never connected to caravel.net until I got a key.

mrimer
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patmo98 wrote:
I thought that this was true too. I never connected to caravel.net until I got a key.

Yeah, we're trying to make this process nicer for people. In 2.0.7, I added a separate CaravelNet usage page in the help docs. It does a better job of explaining things than before, but there's still a ways to go.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Blondbeard
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My game too broke down when I installed the patch. Totally. I couldn´t even open it. I had to reinstall it, and some data got lost. I suppose I have to agree with the point in exporting the playerfile pretty often.