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Xindaris
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icon Make a Good DROD Level Compilation (+2)  
Okay, I've attached the current version of the MaGDL compilation hold with the level architects properly credited. Some various notes about this:

-While the contest was running, I had a go at making "hub puzzles". I maybe want to edit the ones for Bubbly Spirits and A good portrait a bit, and I still need to do one for Kaboom Castle and Version check.
-The hub now has its blue door and exit stairs in 1S, instead of the weird placeholder room being there.
-I still need to edit the description of the hub level, as well as the overall hold's description an ending.
-Since these levels have different "authors" in the hold data, I have no idea whether demos or saves will copy over correctly. They are otherwise exactly the same levels as the anonymized versions, though.
-I have checked and double-checked that all of the entrances into and out of all of the levels work, but another check by somebody else wouldn't hurt.
-I'd also like to maybe add map art of a little trophy to the 1st-4th prize winners?

Individual entry notes:
-The change to Version Check 1N1W is present in this version.
-Some of the custom graphics in Spiders' Domain (specifically the Spider Queen and Webspinner) use edited versions of the Spider graphics from regular DROD and will require permission. I'll be sure to ask said permission before submitting this to HA's, and this is my note to self to do that.
-The entrance text for Kaboom Castle says "Entrance 1". This can be left alone, just mentioning it.
-war2101 still has some scripting I added to it to allow the player to return to the hub via special command in the entrance. If Punf would like to edit in a different way to return to the hub conveniently, please let me know.

Entrants, please post any needed changes to this thread!

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 10-24-2021 04:17 AM]
09-16-2021 at 08:19 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Make a Good DROD Level Compilation (0)  
Hub puzzle for Halloween is a little glitched, I had the brain die while a pumpkin was still alive (but pushed away from its original tile).
09-16-2021 at 08:31 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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Spider's Domain: second scroll in 4N says "copy and past"

A good portrait: In 1S, if you cut the mud, you can enter either this room or the one to its west while standing on a black door, and then stab bombs. If you then take the exit blocked by those bombs, there's no way back.
I believe removing the bomb at (33,19) in 1S1W would prevent getting stuck in this way. Since only one bomb is removed, it probably wouldn't impact the minimap art much if at all?
09-16-2021 at 11:17 PM
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Xindaris
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The bug with the pumpkins is because the way they're coded doesn't actually play well with being stunned by pushing weapons. Maybe adding "imperative not stunnable" to the pumpkins would fix it? But I didn't want to change the code of a 'default character' used in someone else's entry without permission and double-checking that it wouldn't break any of the entry's puzzles.

For now, I've made a small update with a couple of changes to Spiders' Domain:
-Typo fix in 4N
-The dialogue in 3N1W was unintentionally set to re-play every time the player re-entered the room after clearing it; now it only plays immediately after the player clears the room. komachi pointed out this issue in his comments in the voting thread; thanks!

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-16-2021 11:32 PM]
09-16-2021 at 11:31 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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Looking through the entry, only 1S2E and 2E involve pushing weapons.

In 1S2E, it does not seem possible to clear the room without taking the staff while a golem is alive, and as you need the golems to block pumpkin spawns, it would be very difficult to set up a scenario where this issue happens.

2E can run into the same issue, where the brain dies if you stun the final pumpkin instead of killing it. But the room can be solved without doing this.

It doesn't look to me like there would be any problem with rendering the pumpkins unstunnable, but I guess that decision is up to disoriented.
09-16-2021 at 11:47 PM
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Chaco
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In Halloween 2021 north section (candy exchange) it was possible as of the contest version to reach the boundary zone around the main puzzle area, and manually step on all the conquer tokens.

I don't know whether it was intentional or not, to allow skipping those rooms during the contest, but for the purposes of room highscores it's probably good to fix that before general release.

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09-17-2021 at 12:08 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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Looks like the leak is in 1N, because it has floor instead of pit around the spot where you enter.
Should be easy to fix, just surround the bridge tiles you enter on with some form of obstacle.
09-17-2021 at 12:16 AM
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disoriented
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>> Looks like the leak is in 1N, because it has floor instead of pit around the spot where you enter.
Should be easy to fix, just surround the bridge tiles you enter on with some form of obstacle.

Please add obstacles to that area, thanks.

>> The bug with the pumpkins is because the way they're coded doesn't actually play well with being stunned by pushing weapons. Maybe adding "imperative not stunnable" to the pumpkins would fix it?

I'm ok with this change. If you're not comfortable making it, let me know which version I should edit. Thank you!

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[Last edited by disoriented at 09-17-2021 12:46 AM]
09-17-2021 at 12:45 AM
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Xindaris
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Okay, new update in first post with those changes:
-Jack-O-Lantern script has "Imperative Not Stunnable" added to its "initialization sequence"
-Added Obstacles like the ones that act as walls for the candy exchange area on either side of the bridge in 1N. Please let me know if you'd prefer something different from this aesthetically, of course.

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09-17-2021 at 02:07 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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I just realized an issue that has not been mentioned: Currently, the hold entrance is set to Spider's Domain.

This isn't a big deal since you can just walk out, but I suspect it's not what you wanted to do.
09-17-2021 at 02:13 AM
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Rabscuttle
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I'm going to be making a bunch of changes to my level.
09-17-2021 at 02:21 AM
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Xindaris
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I'm..not really sure how Spiders' Domain became the main entrance to the hold?
When I went from the voting compilation to this one, I deleted the original hub and pasted in a level I'd been working on in a separate hold, putting it at the top of the level list. Despite this, the hold repeatedly sent me to Spiders' Domain on clicking "new game". I eventually managed to fix it by moving Spiders' Domain up and down in the level list, so now that is fixed. But in between, I encountered some buggy behavior where the scripting that says "go to level entrance [room in the hub]" instead sent me back to Spiders' domain again once. Could I ask people to really check all of the entrances are working now? Because I'm a bit paranoid from this weirdness.

The update also contains a tweak to spider queen/webspinner behavior which makes them not walk on stairs or stairs-up in the same way they won't walk on tunnels. This came up in the hub puzzle, pointed out by Dragon Fogel in chat.
I have also removed the scroll from the entrance of the hub that said something about the stairs in that room in the voting version which is no longer true (there are no stairs in the entrance now).

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-17-2021 02:31 AM]
09-17-2021 at 02:29 AM
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Punf
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For war2101: yeah, feel free to chuck some stairs in a corner of the entrance or something. It might allow for some easier highscores, but eh, whatever.

Also, I think some of the hub scrolls are off: Kaboom Castle is missing its placement, and war2101 should be 8th, not 9th.

[Last edited by Punf at 09-17-2021 03:35 AM]
09-17-2021 at 03:30 AM
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Xindaris
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Went ahead and fixed the scrolls, whoops.

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09-17-2021 at 03:41 AM
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komachi
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File: Make a Good Drod Level Voting.demo (41.5 KB)
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icon Re: Make a Good DROD Level Compilation (0)  
Can confirm that demos from compilation should work in this hold although not all of them are imported. Export/import demos from the contest hold throw a warning about incompatible versions.
ED: They run fine in all the levels (although there's incompatible errors in many rooms), I will throw my demos if someone want to tweak an specific room.
For my part, only remove the spear in A good portrait 1S which I kind forgot to do so and the scrolls at the entrances which I think you already did.

[Last edited by komachi at 09-17-2021 08:47 PM]
09-17-2021 at 06:44 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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Rabscuttle found an unintended solution to Version Check 1N1E. I fixed this with a force arrow, and while I was at it, I added checkpoints to 2N and 2N1E - somehow I forgot them in only those two rooms.
I also made 1N1W slightly tighter because Rabscuttle solved it while letting the stalwart move.

2N1W also has an unintended solution but it's probably harder to execute than the intended one. So I'm fine leaving that one in.
09-18-2021 at 07:39 AM
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Red-XIII
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File: MaGDLV The Orthogonal Road 1S1W Victory.demo (2.7 KB)
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As a rusty player, I found some of these entries a bit hard, but still enjoyable, well done to the participants!

One thing though, for the Orthogonal road, 1S1W, is this the intended solution? (see attachment). I spent a LOT of time trying to find an easier and faster solution, but failed miserably.

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09-18-2021 at 08:41 AM
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disoriented
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09-18-2021 at 08:48 AM
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disoriented
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Small typo in my entry (missing letter s).
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09-18-2021 at 08:50 AM
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Red-XIII
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disoriented wrote:
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Nice! I tried to reach that configuration, but I failed. I guess I missed the proper way to manipulate them.
Probably one of the best rooms of the contest.

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09-18-2021 at 12:08 PM
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Xindaris
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New update:
-Makes requested edits to Halloween 2021 and Version Check
-Added hub puzzle for Version Check, using a few arky suggestions I rolled myself.
-removed Kaboom Castle from the compilation per Nuntar's request. The edit I've made to the relevant room in the hub should be considered temporary; I think I'll want to reorganize the hub a bit because of this.

I've seen a few unintended solutions to my rooms in Rabscuttle's videos. I may take a look at some demos and make some edits to at least spiders' domain..we'll see. No time right now.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-19-2021 06:01 AM]
09-19-2021 at 05:59 AM
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Xindaris
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New update:
-Tweaks to Spiders' Domain 2N1W and 2N3W to hopefully better enforce the intended solutions.

I've been thinking about the way I saw Rabscuttle "break" some of the rooms in my other entry (TOR?), and I'm not sure if there's a reasonable way to fix any of them. (Also, I'm not really trying to pick on Rabscuttle, that's just where I first saw these breaks. Maybe everyone found them.) I'm going to say some more specific stuff in secrets here, since it does spoiler the solutions, and maybe someone could chime in on how these could, or even if they should be patched:

Click here to view the secret text

I will also mention, since it's come up in this thread that I'm okay with/unsure how to prevent
Click here to view the secret text
in 1S1W, since the real solution is probably easier than that to a degree that makes leaving that room alone feel sensible.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-19-2021 08:56 PM]
09-19-2021 at 08:40 PM
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Rabscuttle
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OR? thoughts

3S:
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4S1W:
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[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 09-20-2021 03:23 PM]
09-20-2021 at 03:22 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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My experience with Orthogonal Road 3S:

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To add to Rabscuttle's comments on 4S1W, I didn't break the room like he did, but most of what I did coming in from both directions was the same. There were some differences at the very start but they didn't feel that major.
09-20-2021 at 07:09 PM
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Xindaris
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Alright, so, 3S:
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As for the challenge in 4S1W, well, my feeling is that "leave this fairly easy challenge in" isn't really a huge flaw compared to "keep this room trivial or tedious". I felt like the approaches were different enough to be interesting, and would hope that at least some of the people interested in trying the challenge would feel the same. Anyone who's not trying to get every challenge ever who doesn't think it's interesting can easily skip it, which leaves just challenge completionists, who usually solve rooms dozens of times anyway, maybe solving that room twice?

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-20-2021 07:48 PM]
09-20-2021 at 07:31 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: MaGDLC The Orthogonal Road 3S Victory.demo (30.9 KB)
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icon Re: Make a Good DROD Level Compilation (+1)  
Hold on, here's a demo.

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09-20-2021 at 07:57 PM
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Xindaris
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Update in first post: Total hub reorganization. The 8 remaining entries are now surrounding the Entrance, which also contains the blue doors and exit again. I've also "honored" the good portrait entry a bit, since it doesn't have (and wouldn't be appropriate for it to have) any actual hub puzzle, by putting in some hold art: Gold, silver and bronze trophies for the first 3 places, plus a ribbon for 4th place as it's the 3rd non-contest-organizer place. The content of the hub puzzles is the same but several of them have been moved slightly, as well as various entrances changing because of hub rooms moving around; hopefully they're all hooked up correctly now. The scroll for each entry now also lists the architect, and the Entrance contains a scroll explaining the absence of a 6th place entry in the compilation.

Oh, speaking of "A good portrait"! Someone mentioned somewhere buried in their commentary in the voting thread a concern about copyright with the image the map art forms. I don't believe this will be an issue, as we have the precedent of (for example) the metdroid series having a huge picture of Samus built into the hold art of one of its levels. I guess if an HA disagrees we can discuss what to do, but my opinion is strongly that it should be perfectly fine.
..And I've forgotten to remove the spear token in that entry. It'll be gone in the next update, promise.

Anyway, replying to the above post:
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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-21-2021 01:34 AM]
09-21-2021 at 01:31 AM
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Punf
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I discovered from Chaco's video that war2101: 1N has a trivial solution. Could you remove all the force arrows near the entrance, and replace them with an open yellow door exactly on the entrance (pressure plate closes, orb opens)? I've verified the room and challenge are still solvable.

[Last edited by Punf at 09-21-2021 07:06 AM]
09-21-2021 at 07:03 AM
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Xindaris
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I don't have time to make edits right this minute (edits mentioned in the last two posts will be made when I do), but I just want to make a small note to myself:

While watching Chaco's playthrough of Spiders' Domain, he was very confused by the statement in the level-clear secret about how spider queens move differently from wraithwings. It seems that whenever I was checking that behavior, I somehow managed to do the checking with a brain present, which completely changes the way a lone wraithwing reacts to a nearby Beethro, but not register that the brain was messing with things. So, I should probably cut that explanation/demonstration out of that room, since it is in fact false. Spider queens really do move just like unbrained lone wraithwings in all situations as far as I can tell.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-22-2021 04:16 AM]
09-22-2021 at 04:15 AM
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Kalin
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Xindaris wrote:
New update:
-Tweaks to Spiders' Domain 2N1W and 2N3W to hopefully better enforce the intended solutions.
Speaking of intentional solutions in Spiders' Domain, did Chaco and Rabscuttle solve 3N2W in the intended way? Because I did it by
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(which took me a ton of trial and error).
09-22-2021 at 12:52 PM
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