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davidatk100
Level: Goblin
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icon Temporal Frustration (+3)  
I played through TSS when it was first released and I got up to a room with a temporal split point(s) and a serpent. I didn't like the unpredictability of the serpent when used in conjunction with the temporal split. Unfortunately that's were I left DROD.

Recently I decided to play through all the official holds again. I'm up to the temporal split tokens and I'm starting to remember why I was frustrated. I'm currently up to TSS Temporal Anomaly 2N1W. The concept is simple idea but the execution is really difficult and hurts my little brain. My problem is trying to anticipate how monsters and elements will act in a room to a 'future Bethro'. Sometimes many 'future Bethros'. I'm also aware that they get harder.

That's enough complaining.

Can anyone help? How do other people plan and solve these rooms?

Are there any tools that could help? Is there a custom clock which can help synchronise temporal projections? (The standard clock, custom clock I have installed and turn counter require too much thinking!) Perhaps there's a mod which allows me to move Bethro and temporal projection in parallel rather than series (similar to 2 player DROD). Would they be difficult to create?

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06-09-2018 at 12:10 PM
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dudeman
Level: Roachling
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icon Re: Temporal Frustration (+2)  
I literally just beat that room yesterday. Here's a few tips that helped me (this feels like it should be in H&S):

Click here to view the secret text


In general, wearing out my Ctrl and 5 keys (to sync up and give me enough time to do my thing), using sword swipes as signals that a projection's about to move, and (when applicable) mentally mapping out how monsters will move given some starting positions have been tricks that haven't failed me yet.

Also, unlimited undo helps. Really, really, really helps.

[Last edited by dudeman at 06-09-2018 02:42 PM]
06-09-2018 at 02:18 PM
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navithmastero
Level: Master Delver
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icon Re: Temporal Frustration (+2)  
Hey there, first of all, I don't think you're alone in this gripe with the use of temporal tokens in TSS, the level you are on in particular has a mix of good rooms and pretty poor rooms which just require guess work. They aren't really explored properly until much later in the game in my opinion. There are a bunch of usermade holds which use them better.

Secondly, a couple of general points about Temporal Projections. For one, if Beethro and a TP are the same distance from a monster (this is worked out via Chebyshev Metric), the monster will target the temporal projection which came earliest in the time line. This means that if current Beethro is one square away from a roach, and so is temporal projection Beethro, the roach will target the temporal projection, if there are multiple projections, the monster will target again, the one that came first (that is, the one that, if you right click on it, has the highest number). Hopefully, this will help.

Also, try and give yourself plenty of time to do everything so that you don't have to worry about efficiency, to be honest, there's not a lot you can do with these future Beethro prediction rooms other than to consider where your danger points are and to stick to areas where monsters can only come at you from a limited number of directions.

Serpents can be hard to predict anyway if you're not super familiar with them, and so an added inclusion of a temporal projection obviously doesn't help. IIRC, there aren't a whole lot of serpent rooms in TSS because they can be pretty hard to manipulate. If you're still having problems with them, then there are some guides around here somewhere. There is a brief description of how they move here.

As for the room in question here is the hints board for it, and if you're stuck after reading that, then just post again over there, and I'm sure one of us will be happy to help you out.

Finally, I doubt there are any tools that could help. There aren't any custom clocks which can help, and a mod which allows you to move Beethro and TP in parallel also doesn't exist and probably won't ever as it partially defeats the 'puzzle' in some of these rooms.

Hope this helps!

EDIT: Post clash! The advice above outlines a lot of the same stuff as I do!

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 06-09-2018 02:40 PM]
06-09-2018 at 02:32 PM
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davidatk100
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 19
Registered: 11-27-2007
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icon Re: Temporal Frustration (+3)  
I managed to finish Temporal Anomaly without as much difficulty as I was expecting. Many of the rooms were actually enjoyable. Fortunately, the timing in this level was quite forgiving. I can see the potential for some incredibly bad rooms, even more so than other elements. I'm glad architects and testers are awesome :thumbsup

Thanks for the tips dudeman and navithmastero. They were quite helpful. Especially with the Adder in
Click here to view the secret text


Regarding my original post, the room that defeated me last time was 3N1W with the Rattlesnake, not 1N1E with with Serpent (my mistake). I also realised that changing the mechanics to move Bethro and temporal projection in parallel similar to 2 player DROD is fundamentally different and will not require keeping each temporal projection alive in each iteration.

Thanks again for your help. I'm determined to finish TSS this time.
06-10-2018 at 11:38 AM
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