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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Bugs : Aumtlich and fluff
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Nuntar
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icon Aumtlich and fluff (+1)  
Aumtlich beams pass through fluff, but are blocked by puffs.

This seems like it must be wrong, because fluff is the same "stuff" as puffs, just more consolidated; it could be that this substance is dense enough to block beams, but it doesn't make sense that a lighter form blocks while a denser form does not.

Aumtlich beams are blocked by the other tarstuffs, while evil eyes see through them (and can also see through fluff and puffs).

We discussed this in chat just now, and Chaco did a search for rooms containing aumtlich and any form of fluff. There are only five, and none of them are dependent on this interaction.

I think this should be made consistent, either by beams going through both puffs and fluff, or neither. I don't have a strong preference between those, because both have consistency arguments supporting them: beams are blocked by other tarstuffs; fluff is gaseous and could be expected to be different from other tarstuffs.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 06-01-2018 04:25 AM]
06-01-2018 at 04:25 AM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: Aumtlich and fluff (+2)  
Fluff actually occupies more of the tile than puffs do, graphically, so I would argue it's probably less dense in a stable form. Like water and ice, appropriately enough. Also, unfortunately, no matter how you try to make things "flawlessly consistent" there will be a violation somewhere else.

Puffs are monsters, and with the possible exception of seep, monsters block aumtlich beams.

As far as fluff and puff being the same stuff and this having the same behaviour, we already see exceptions with the tarstuff. Brains path through tar babies but not through tar. Gel babies can cross shallow water, but gel cannot. Tarstuff gates toggle when all tarstuff is removed from the room, except for the babies. I disagree that a difference in behaviour between fluff and puff must be wrong.

On a more emotional level, when playing a room in beta that uses the difference between these things, my reaction to first seeing this interaction was "Oh, that makes sense. Of course it works that way." Clearly your reaction was different. I just wanted to state that there is an argument for things being fine as they are.

If a change was to be made I would argue that making fluff opaque would be better than making puffs transparent. Aumtlich seeing through a barrier is less unusual than aumtlich seeing through monsters, so if the behaviour of fluff and puffs had to be the same that's the cleanest change to make in my opinion.

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06-01-2018 at 08:12 AM
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Trickster
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icon Re: Aumtlich and fluff (0)  
How do you only have 244 rank points?

Here, have another.

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06-01-2018 at 10:01 AM
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Insoluble
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icon Re: Aumtlich and fluff (+1)  
To throw in my 2 cents I agree with mauve and Trickster. This doesn't seem like a bug. There are currently at least 3 holds in Beta testing that use this behavior, 2 of which are mostly finished so it would be nice to have an official ruling on this soonish.

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06-05-2018 at 05:17 PM
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skell
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icon Re: Aumtlich and fluff (+3)  
I hope Mike won't mind me quoting this (emphasis mine):

quote:

quote:
I'm also considering making Aumtlich Beams pass through Puffs, as they already pass through Fluff. We should also try to consider other element combinations and see if there are any interactions we should take into account, with regards to puzzle potential, consistency and intuitiveness.

I can think of some "logical" reasons for and against. We could say that puffs are more congealed fluff, so they can block an aumtlich gaze. As related to game play, I'm generally against adding one-off idiosyncracies like this, and I can't really think of general puzzle usage for this. So, I'd also say let's leave this out, i.e., let puffs continue to block aumtlich gaze [and keep fluff not block aumtlich gaze]. I can't think of other interactions to consider atm.



Which means this behavior is intended:

1. Aumtlich gaze is NOT BLOCKED by Fluff.
2. Aumtlich gaze is BLOCKED by Puffs.

If anyone cares about my personal opinion, I'd expect Fluff to block Aumtlich gaze simply because visually it is similar to tar (insert here a link about visual language in games and how the most natural thing for a player is to assume similar looking things act similarly - and while Fluff's texture is different from Tarstuff's the shape is almost the same and it also is built of 2x2 blocks which increases the familiarity also let's not discuss my personal opinions here).

That being said, I am totally fine with the current behavior. It's a simple quirk, not much worse than spider's ability to walk on water, it's internally consistent (unlike Stalwart pathfinding) it's very discoverable (unlike being able to move by more than one tiles when accompanied by a push) it's simple (unlike Wraithwing movement rules) and easy to apply (unlike predicting Wraithwing horde movement).





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06-06-2018 at 06:03 AM
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