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superluminal
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File: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin.hold (28.8 KB)
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icon The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin (+1)  
I missed the deadline for November's contest. :(

Rather than let my totes amazeballs architecture skills go to waste, I elected to build two more levels and put the whole thing out there standalone. It doesn't fit the difficulty curve, or follow the contest rules, or even feel like a GatEB hold, but hey! It's my hold now!

The hold is complete. I'm just looking for testers to help me find problems and make sure things don't suck. Thanks in advance!

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spacelike

[Last edited by superluminal at 06-13-2018 02:45 AM]
02-21-2018 at 06:20 AM
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mauvebutterfly
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File: TUUToGB - mauve.demo (14.4 KB)
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icon Re: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin (0)  
This was very neat. I loved the dialogue, and thought that the first level in particular was actually very Gunthro-like. The second level was a lot less enjoyable than the first, mostly because I don't like trying to manipulate soldiers to face a certain direction while using a staff and a roach. There were several rooms that required this, and it felt a bit more repetitive than the first level. I did enjoy the overall structure of the second level though, and thought that the multi-pass rooms were well executed.

I'll post my demos so you can see if I did anything unintended, but I don't think I managed to break anything.

Friendly Forest 4N1E is possible to do keeping both soldiers alive, as shown in my demo for that room. Since this solution doesn't use the spikes at all I'm assuming that the intended solution is to kill the soldiers on the spikes. This is what I did the first time, but then restarted before clearing the room since I wanted to try keeping them alive, so I don't have a demo of that solution. It would be nice if the dialogue changed if the room was completed in this way. I actually think it would be better if this wasn't a challenge, and was just a neat dialogue change to discover, but that's your call.

I agree with you that this is better as its own hold, rather than being added in as a bonus entry in the actual contest compilation. I'm not opposed to including it in the compilation if you do decide you want it there, but it feels substantial enough to stand on its own in my opinion.

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106th Skywatcher
02-22-2018 at 05:57 PM
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Insoluble
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File: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin.demo (22.5 KB)
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icon Re: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin (0)  
Demos attached in case you want another set. I don't think I broke anything badly. Some specific comments to follow. In general I think this did a relatively good job dealing with an inherently fiddly element (soldiers). Most of the rooms did not require having to manipulate their notoriously unpredictable pathing. Some rooms were a bit much though. The final room isn't so much difficult as it is tedious. Trying to come up with an arrangement of the 6 soldiers to prevent them from dying is pretty much just blind trial and error and isn't really a satisfying conclusion to the hold. I skipped this one.

Friendly Forest
As mauvebutterfly mentioned the story is great. It really fits in with the sense of humor GatEB had.
2N: This is potentially the first puzzle room players will encounter and first impressions are important. This room unfortunately relies mostly on trial and error to keep the roach alive due to the unpredictable nature of soldier path mapping. Thankfully it's fairly forgiving, but it's an important thing to consider.
1N1E: This is the other room players might encounter first. This one was a lot more enjoyable. The puzzle is all about timing the soldiers but their paths are 100% predictable so it's much less trial and error. Nice room.
3N: Another enjoyable one since there's no having to guess what the stalwarts will do. It's an interesting application of pathmap blocking.
4N: You commented your DRODscript? Wow! Nice! This one felt a bit more reliant on trial and error, but again, there was a lot of leeway so it wasn't too bad. Even the challenge is pretty manageable.
5N: I feel like this one could have been more complicated actually. The way it is it isn't too hard to just cut almost any old path and the timing is lenient enough to get it to work. Even though soldier pathing is annoying to deal with in general, giving the player crumbly walls to work with makes it much easier to force certain paths. I feel like the idea behind this room is pretty interesting and wish the puzzle was a bit more involved.
2N1E: Another nice room. I like the fact that Beethro gets one roach and the soldier gets the other even though the widgets look very similar.
3N1E: Another nice room. It took me a minute to realize that the one orb could be hit by Beethro.
4N1E: At first I thought the soldier had to stay in the middle the whole time while I hit the orbs. Thankfully that was not the case.
5N1E: I brute force trial-and-errored this one. Not much else you can do.

Forewarned Fortress.Still enjoying the dialog and story. This also fits in well with GaTEB style. I also really like the layout. It was a bit disorienting starting the level at 1W, but I get why you did it that way. I might recommend putting a scroll in reminding players that they can hit F5 to record a multi-room demos since I often find that useful for multi-pass rooms like these. Otherwise the game will only typically save a demo on the pass where you clear the room.
1S1W: Both passes were pretty straightforward, but still enjoyable.
1S: First pass: Fairly straightforward. Second pass: much trickier to stay alive. Interesting room though. Third Pass: trivial. This is the only pass that I have a demo for unfortunately.
1S1E: Thankfully the orbs were toggle so I didn't have to worry too much about keeping the roach alive. This was a nice room.
1E: I liked this one too. More a demonstration of some nice tricks than anything else. Still it was fun and the dialog was enjoyable.
1N1E: First pass was mostly manipulation to stay alive. Not too bad. The second pass was a really neat little puzzle that explored some interesting pushing manipulation mechanics. Really liked this one.
1N: This was one of the few rooms where the soldier manipulation felt a bit much. Getting him to face the right direction was mostly guess-and-check. Thankfully it's possible to get the roach stuck somewhere pretty easily, but I fumbled around a few times at first with the roach roaming free and had a horrible time with it. The trick for the last roach was nice and sneaky. I really liked that bit.
1N1W: Getting the soldier turned the right way was pretty tricky in this one too. For some reason I enjoyed it more though. Possibly because figuring out the orientation you need was much more of an interesting puzzle this time and it made the manipulation feel more worth it.
1W: This was another "Keep the roach alive" room that I didn't enjoy as much.
The Entrence: Wow, I really only have myself to blame for this one. I made it much harder than it needed to be because I didn't realize I could just open the yellow doors. So uh, challenge: kill the roaches before you open the yellow doors. (don't actually make that a challenge).

Firey Furnace
This one looks to be just the one room. As I mentioned before I quit soon after I saw what needed doing. The left bit seems fine, and getting all the soldiers from one half to the other is also okay. But after a few attempts at setting up the soldiers in a way that will allow them all to survive on the east side I gave up.

All in all a pretty neat hold. I make no secret of the fact that stalwarts (and soldiers) are one of my least favorite elements due to their horrible path mapping, but this hold mostly used them in a painless way. I had fun with almost all of the rooms. Difficulty level is pretty consistent at maybe a 4 to 5 for the first level and maybe 5 to 6 for the second level (as in brains out of 10).

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[Last edited by Insoluble at 02-24-2018 05:56 AM]
02-24-2018 at 05:54 AM
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superluminal
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icon Re: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin (0)  
Hold updated.

Changes:
Click here to view the secret text


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spacelike
03-01-2018 at 09:19 AM
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superluminal
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icon Re: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin (0)  
Hold updated again. Minor changes:

Click here to view the secret text

I plan to submit this to the HA before the end of the month, unless someone reports an unintended solution or really hates a room.

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spacelike

[Last edited by superluminal at 03-09-2018 06:26 AM]
03-09-2018 at 06:25 AM
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Bent
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File: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin.demo (6.8 KB)
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License: Public Domain
icon Re: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin (+1)  
I just finished the first level, and I like the hold so far. Here's my thoughts on it:

In 2N1E, the platform at 35, 25 suprised me. I just assumed that it was a platform over water, since it was placed in water. If it is meant as a red herring, I think it is a little cheap. If it is intended to make the force arrow more visible, maybe use a bridge tile instead?

I'm pretty sure I broke at least one of the rooms (3N1E), and also, is there a reason that room have an unreachable scroll?

I have attached my demos to this post.

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03-10-2018 at 07:29 PM
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superluminal
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icon Re: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin (0)  
Hold updated.

Click here to view the secret text

Thanks for the help, Mr. Bent! :)

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spacelike
03-10-2018 at 08:33 PM
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Bent
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File: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin2.demo (14.9 KB)
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icon Re: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin (0)  
Just mastered the hold! I really liked it. Lots of good puzzles using a limited set of elements, and nice architecture. The layout on level two was really cool!

About the second level:
1N: Forcing me to replay the room because I let the soldier at 29,30 die felt a bit cheap to me, as he had nothing to do with the puzzle itself…
1W was the hardest room in the level for me. I may have found an unintended solution to it, but I'm not really sure.

Again hold demos are attached to this post.
quote:
superluminal wrote: I noticed you solved 5N 1E without killing any soldiers beforehand. That's above and beyond the normal solution (and requires better swordplay) so I made your solution a challenge. Great find!

Oh, so that's why I thought the room was so hard! :lol





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03-10-2018 at 09:12 PM
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Insoluble
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icon Re: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin (0)  
Bumping this because it's been a while and this was a fun hold and I hope to see it published. I really enjoyed the new version of Fiery Furnace. It was still involved enough to feel like a good final room to the hold, but I definitely appreciate that it did not rely on the vagaries of stalwart path mapping.

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04-30-2018 at 02:12 AM
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superluminal
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icon Re: The Untold Untold Tales of Gunthro Budkin (0)  
Sure, no problem!

I replaced Friendly Forest: 1N1E with a room that's less finicky. I also got rid of a UU in Fiery Furnace -- I don't remember exactly what I did, but it is solvable in its current state.

New version in first post.

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spacelike
05-15-2018 at 09:46 PM
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