Announcement: Be excellent to each other.


Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Bugs : Decoy, disarm token and alternate weapons
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 4576
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged
icon Decoy, disarm token and alternate weapons (0)  
There was a long discussion about mimics (and other armed entities) with non-sword weapons, but currently disarmed, regaining their weapon and whether this should push or kill monsters. This was fixed by bringing everything into line with the behaviour that would be predicted from the following rules:

(1) A disarmed entity regaining a pickaxe pushes in the direction of movement, even if the move was blocked and the entity only bumps;

(2) A disarmed entity regaining a spear stabs in the direction of movement, even if the move was blocked and the entity only bumps.

Decoys weren't discussed in that topic, but the current behaviour is that a decoy regaining a caber kills the entity under its tile, but a decoy regaining a pickaxe, spear, staff or dagger does nothing; the weapon just appears on the same tile as the entity.

This is consistent with the idea that a decoy regaining its weapon has no movement component, and the pickaxe, spear, staff and dagger all require a movement component either to kill or push. As would be expected, initially placing a mimic or decoy with one of these weapons on an entity also neither kills nor pushes it.

But I've noticed a problem with orbs and seeding beacons. (For brevity, I will use "orb" to refer to both. Everything I say from here on applies to both orbs and seeding beacons.) Unlike killing and pushing enemies, activating orbs does not require a movement component; infamously, if a decoy is placed with its sword on an orb, it activates it every turn unless the architect was considerate enough to place a hot tile.

That means that we should expect:

(1) Initially placing a mimic or decoy with any weapon so that its weapon hits an orb should activate it. (It doesn't, either for mimics or decoys.)

(2) If a mimic or decoy has any weapon on an orb, waiting should repeatedly activate it. (Again, this doesn't work with either.)

(3) If a disarmed mimic or decoy regains its weapon so that it hits an orb (in the case of a mimic, have it blocked by the orb so it doesn't move during the turn), it should activate it. This currently works for mimics, but not for decoys. Even if the devs decide (1) and (2) are intended, mimics and decoys behaving differently here is definitely an inconsistency -- especially since the mimic will activate the orb either with pickaxe or spear, indicating that direction of motion isn't relevant.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher
01-05-2017 at 05:25 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1299
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Decoy, disarm token and alternate weapons (0)  
It seems to me that decoys with daggers shouldn't hit orbs (except maybe when they're pushed?) Beethro waiting with a dagger on an orb does nothing.
01-05-2017 at 05:36 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 920
Registered: 07-18-2009
IP: Logged
icon Re: Decoy, disarm token and alternate weapons (0)  
Nuntar wrote:
(2) If a mimic or decoy has any weapon on an orb, waiting should repeatedly activate it. (Again, this doesn't work with either.)

(3) If a disarmed mimic or decoy regains its weapon so that it hits an orb (in the case of a mimic, have it blocked by the orb so it doesn't move during the turn), it should activate it. This currently works for mimics, but not for decoys. Even if the devs decide (1) and (2) are intended, mimics and decoys behaving differently here is definitely an inconsistency -- especially since the mimic will activate the orb either with pickaxe or spear, indicating that direction of motion isn't relevant.

2 Doesn't happen for beethro either. I don't consider it a bug.

3 is happening because the mimic bumps the orb. Try this with a character that toggles a disarm token and you'll get consistent non-activation unless you try to move.

I'm unsure about my opinion for 1. I would probably leave it because of how many rooms may take advantage of the behavior.

Edit: All the stuff at the begininning of your post is conditioned with the same npte as for 3. The act of regaining a pickaxe/spear does not trigger a stab, only if a character regains while moving.

____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

[Last edited by blorx1 at 01-05-2017 06:14 PM]
01-05-2017 at 06:11 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3734
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Decoy, disarm token and alternate weapons (+1)  
(I use strike as in "perform weapon attack or interaction")

Current behavior:
1. Decoys with sticks, pickaxes, daggers and spears DO NOT strike when placed or when their weapon is reenabled
2. Ditto for mimics
3. Ditto for clones
4. Ditto for Beethro (minus the placing part)
5. Decoys with cabers DO strike when placed or when their weapon is reenabled
6. Ditto for mimics
7. Ditto for clones
8. Ditto for Beethro

I agree with Blorx1, it seems everything is consistent here. I also think the current behavior with placing Doubles with different weapons not hitting orbs is consistent with other rules - placing is the same type of damage as waiting, and waiting with those weapons does not trigger orbs.

Closing as "Not a bug". (I know it's been some time since this thread was created, I am just replying to the form it was back then with current knowledge and experiences)

____________________________
My website | Facebook | Twitter
10-12-2020 at 11:12 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Bugs : Decoy, disarm token and alternate weapons
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.