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Nuntar
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File: Entry Point - Public Preview.hold (73.7 KB)
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This is a public preview of the (as yet untitled) hold being produced by the Entry Point project. We are making steady progress and inching ever closer towards completion, but it's a large project and the finish line is still some distance away. So we decided to put together a little preview, containing three complete levels, to make it a bit clearer what kind of hold we are building. We hope this preview leaves you looking forward to seeing the complete hold! :)

As we are still in the middle of the building process, these levels are not necessarily finalised, and may contain unintended solutions or other flaws. Any feedback would be welcome.

EDIT: Improved checkpoint placement in the places pointed out by noma. These changes will be made to the main hold as well.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 07-19-2015 10:14 PM]
07-18-2015 at 07:28 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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I'm stuck on the secret room in Unfriendly Neighbors. Is there some trick here or am I just stuck doing fiddly manipulation and hoping I don't pull the northeast goblin too far?
07-19-2015 at 12:58 AM
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noma
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PoI
Excellent level. Accessible puzzles which are still satisfying covering a good range of what can be done with decoys.

Nitpicky things:

Level description talks about Beethro taking any opportunity to lower decoy life expectancy, but for the most part the level uses them to his benefit and they hardly ever require destroying.

5N – checkpoint at decoy potion or just before? For a beginner especially it may take more than a few tries to figure it out and if someone’s not using UU it could get frustrating to have to restore to the entrance every time.

5N1E – Maybe a vision token? (This one will be fun to optimize.)

7N – I realize this is pretty easy, but beginners might appreciate a checkpoint just before the potions

8N1W – Okay, for me this wasn't accessible. :P Cannot figure out how to access western corridor in 8N. It’s a stumper. I'll come back to it later.

7N1W – better to move the checkpoints to first outer potions at 13,18 and 16,21

Very pretty minimap btw.

Moving on to the next level.

07-19-2015 at 01:28 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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Hint for reaching 8N1W:

Click here to view the secret text

07-19-2015 at 01:40 AM
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disoriented
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Green Stuff 5N1E needs a tarstuff switching token near the black door, so the remaining babies can reach the mimic in the top section.

Green Stuff 3N1W - I found the black door hard to see for some reason. Maybe an arrow or some decoration on that square will help prevent it from blending in to the background.

Green Stuff 2N4E - The lemming reappears if you re-enter the room right after clearing it.

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[Last edited by disoriented at 07-19-2015 10:56 AM]
07-19-2015 at 10:28 AM
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Red-XIII
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I finally have some time so I decided to give it a try, I only completed Unfriendly Neighbours but I really like what I've seen, here's some comments:

1N & 1N1W: Both ok rooms, challenges not really hard.
1N1E: I did it with sword NE and didn't use at all the west zone.
2N: Ok room, but what's the queen purpose?
2N1W: I really liked this one!
2N1E: Good room, the eastern pp can be pressed by the goblin and by me, is this double choice intended?
3N1E: I thought it was going to be trial and error (doing the challenge) but it actually requires a good strategy, well done!
3N: I didn't break any wall here, good room.
3N1W: A bit trial and error but quite easy.
4N1W: Best room in the level IMO, the SW manipulation was really cool!
4N: Very good room!
4N1E: Very easy if you smash the mirrors.
4N2E: Not so easy but doable!
5N: Good ending, but it can be done without moving north at all, it would be a better challenge IMO.

So far, incredible work, I peeked at the other levels and I'm thrilled to see this work finished!
For this single level, I'd give 5.5 brains, 9 for fun and 9 for aesthetics, which I value a lot!


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07-19-2015 at 12:01 PM
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PigmyWubba
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GS 5N1E is designed around the mimic not being able to easily reach the gel babies if you enter the smaller chamber, and I don't want a switcher token outside of the "switcher half" of the level.

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07-19-2015 at 03:04 PM
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noma
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UF
Click here to view the secret text

07-19-2015 at 04:01 PM
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Someone Else
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I'm going to have to agree on UN:4N1E - It's absolutely trivial if you smash the mirrors. A challenge to not smash the mirrors, perhaps?
07-19-2015 at 08:22 PM
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disoriented
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PigmyWubba wrote:
GS 5N1E is designed around the mimic not being able to easily reach the gel babies if you enter the smaller chamber, and I don't want a switcher token outside of the "switcher half" of the level.

Ok - it seems pretty challenging to just clear all the gel in time, but maybe I'm missing something.

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07-19-2015 at 08:45 PM
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Nuntar
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Thanks for the feedback! I've uploaded a new version that has more checkpoint improvements, and (suggested by Pinnacle in chat) a new mechanism for reaching one of the Unfriendly Neighbours secrets.

2N: I'll check with Kieran, but I believe the room is meant to consist of two separate goblin-manipulation puzzles, and the queen in the eastern puzzle serves as an extra monster Beethro has to kill. Since we don't want players to go down the blind alley of trying to use her on the west side, I've replaced her with an evil eye.

4N1W was originally harder and was toned down to be more appropriate for this stage of the hold.

There isn't exactly a UN Part II, but Oznik's escape will certainly lead to trouble later ;)

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07-19-2015 at 09:38 PM
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kieranmillar
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Nuntar wrote: 2N: I'll check with Kieran, but I believe the room is meant to consist of two separate goblin-manipulation puzzles, and the queen in the eastern puzzle serves as an extra monster Beethro has to kill. Since we don't want players to go down the blind alley of trying to use her on the west side, I've replaced her with an evil eye.
This is correct, and I am fine with your suggested change if it prevents people from coming to the wrong conclusions about what to do in the room.
07-19-2015 at 10:05 PM
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disoriented
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Looking for a hint or spoiler for GS: 5N1W. :blush

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07-20-2015 at 02:11 AM
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noma
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File: EPPP Green Stuff 2N4E Victory of a sort.demo (7 KB)
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icon Re: Entry Point: Public Preview (0)  
And finally for GS (mostly checkpoint nitpicks):
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by noma at 07-20-2015 06:29 AM : See comment on 3N1W]
07-20-2015 at 05:45 AM
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noma
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Just a thought: how about a seeding beacon for PoI 8N? I'm guessing it's not there because they haven't been introduced yet, but a scroll could explain it. Beginners can easily get messed up with the whole Restore thing so a beacon might be safer.
07-20-2015 at 07:08 AM
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kieranmillar
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I've previously suggested seeding beacons behind Hold Complete walls in every room that has a reason to make ther player restore before the seeding beacons are introduced, with an explanation of the hold complete wall at this first occurrence. Thought it might be worth pushing the idea to the public while we have the opportunity.
07-20-2015 at 07:15 AM
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adS
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noma wrote:
PoI
7N1W – better to move the checkpoints to first outer potions at 13,18 and 16,21

Why?
I would place a checkpoint on (22,19). Those at (15,22) and (22,13) are rather useless, indeed.

Best wishes adS

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[Last edited by adS at 07-20-2015 01:02 PM]
07-20-2015 at 12:57 PM
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Nuntar
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I haven't solved all of GS yet, but here are some replies to noma's comments.

Most checkpoint suggestions are good, and I've made those changes to the main hold.

Yes, there is a level teaching movement order in Tier 5 (GS is Tier 6).

I removed checkpoints from the long passage in 1N3E, but haven't changed the placement in the gel area as I don't know which squares would be good.

2N2E/2E. Yes, these are simple rooms if you already know the concept. The idea of 2N2E is simply that switching to tar, placing decoys on inner corners, then switching back to gel is more efficient than placing decoys on edges then switching to tar. Disarm tokens are so you can't cut gel before entering the decoy area, but are not limited to placing decoys facing the direction you just moved. (Perhaps better to replace with a tunnel into the decoy area?)

3N1W: I'll put walls on either side of both exit corridors. I really don't see how placing an arrow would make something under it easier to see. PigmyWubba has changed this room in a way that looks better :)

3N: Checkpoints are because this is the exit stair room. Though I don't see the need for three. I'll change them for just one, at (19,12).

The full hold contains a room that thoroughly explains Restore, secrets and challenges and how to hunt for them.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 07-20-2015 04:44 PM]
07-20-2015 at 01:31 PM
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PigmyWubba
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For 3N1W, i'll do something about the black door being hard to see, I want to keep the aesthetics of the level, and putting a wall down probably does not do that.

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07-20-2015 at 01:54 PM
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adS
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File: EPPP Green Stuff 5N1W.demo (4.1 KB)
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disoriented wrote:
Looking for a hint or spoiler for GS: 5N1W. :blush

I cannot give any hint except a demo :(

This room is very hard, indeed.

The checkpoints should be placed at (15,12), (16,11) ...

Excellent room!

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[Last edited by adS at 07-20-2015 06:12 PM]
07-20-2015 at 06:12 PM
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adS
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File: drodscreen21.jpg (143.7 KB)
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disoriented wrote:
PigmyWubba wrote:
GS 5N1E is designed around the mimic not being able to easily reach the gel babies if you enter the smaller chamber, and I don't want a switcher token outside of the "switcher half" of the level.

Ok - it seems pretty challenging to just clear all the gel in time, but maybe I'm missing something.

I still have lots of babies when I enter the small chamber but it can be done:

Click here to view the secret text




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[Last edited by adS at 07-20-2015 07:14 PM]
07-20-2015 at 07:13 PM
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adS
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GS 2N2E reminds me of Gigantic Jewel Lost, Goblin Woods 6N3W

Anyway, the trick used in GS 2N2E and 2E is very nice :)

Best wishes,

adS


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07-20-2015 at 08:17 PM
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Shendy
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A few comments (may contain hints/solutions to the puzzles):
Click here to view the secret text

07-23-2015 at 05:28 AM
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adS
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Shendy wrote:
A few comments (may contain hints/solutions to the puzzles):
Click here to view the secret text


This is true, indeed. My first idea was
Click here to view the secret text


For me the hardest room was 8N (if you want to leave through the W exit.

Best wishes,

adS


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07-23-2015 at 02:04 PM
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Shendy
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Comments on GS (spoiler warning):

Click here to view the secret text


I'll also comment on noma's comments on GS below:

Click here to view the secret text


EDIT: Added comments on 2N4E. Removed comments on 2N4E as I think I was wrong.

EDIT 2:I finished GS and added comments on 5N1W.

[Last edited by Shendy at 07-24-2015 11:29 AM]
07-24-2015 at 06:13 AM
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Nuntar
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Shendy wrote: GS 5N1W can be made a lot easier by using disabled force arrows instead of active force arrows.
Tarstuff not spawning on disabled arrows is a known bug that will be fixed in 5.0.2 onwards.

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07-24-2015 at 01:18 PM
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Pinnacle
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Shendy wrote:

As I said before, the level contains challenging puzzles, but the puzzles are not too challenging or obscure that beginners will be put off.

Not to mention the fact that by the time anyone gets this far in the hold, it would be a massive stretch to consider them a beginner. For a reasonably experienced player, it takes roughly 30 hours to reach tier 6.

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07-24-2015 at 01:38 PM
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LeoS
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I've gotten through PoI and UN (shocking to me since I'm terrible at goblins and loathe them) and most of GS and concur that this looks to be an awesome introductory yet comprehensive hold. Two minor style quibbles:

PoI 8N: The repeated striking of orbs (by stationary decoy, mimic, etc) has always grated on me - can the northern orb be changed to a cracked one? Or both orbs, for style symmetry.

UN Entrance: Not to get all Language Police-y but I found Beethro's use of "scumbag" a little jarring and somewhat out of character. Perhaps replace with an epithet more Eighth-like and less 'Sopranos'?

And then, here I spend 10 minutes wavering on whether I should secret text the orb comment, the "Word", or both.

[Last edited by LeoS at 07-24-2015 04:31 PM : typo]
07-24-2015 at 04:31 PM
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Nuntar
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LeoS wrote: PoI 8N: The repeated striking of orbs (by stationary decoy, mimic, etc) has always grated on me - can the northern orb be changed to a cracked one? Or both orbs, for style symmetry.
Cracked orbs are introduced in another Tier 2 level, and the levels within each tier can be played in any order, so the player may not have been introduced to them yet.

I've solved the problem (in the full hold) by placing a hot tile on the square south of the orb.

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07-24-2015 at 04:48 PM
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TripleM
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Completed everything except the GS 1N1W challenge - that one has me stumped. Especially liked the challenge room in The Hub.

Various comments:

Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by TripleM at 07-25-2015 05:20 AM]
07-25-2015 at 04:47 AM
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