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gamer_extreme_101
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Recently, a friend of mine started discussing an old game called "Bio Menace". It was a 1991 sidescrolling shooter that was very addicting (Or at least the first episode was...) and very easy to get into. That immediatly made me start to think of an old computer I had sitting around my house. When I loaded it up, I found a whole schwack of classics!! Games LIke Commander Keen, Wolfenstein 3D, Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure, The Webfoot DROD(Shareware), Duke Nuken I, Indiana Jones & the Last Crusades, Ken's Labrynth, and a whole lot more!

Now, here's an interesting question - How do games like those compare to games nowadays, and what was your favorite retro game?

For me, games like those started me into computers games where I am now. Those games were very simple, but had that "I need to play one more level!!!" factor in them. My all-time favourite game? Tough, but I'll go with a little known and official Wolfenstein sequel called "Spear of Destiny". Play the last level in it, and you'll know why!

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10-14-2004 at 03:09 PM
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Nillo
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I'd say that in the ol' days of Nintendo, Gameboy, etc. gameplay possibilities were limited because of system requirements. But as of today with the current systems it is entirely possible to make whatever games you want, and new consoles only improve graphics and nothing more.

My favorite retro game?
Mine Bombers. I still play it occasionally because, well, because I don't have any other games where you can play 4 players on the same computer. And it's fun!

If you haven't played it yet, you can download it at The Underdogs.
"Spear of Destiny"
That name rings a bell. I know I've played it, but I can't remember a thing about it.

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10-14-2004 at 04:20 PM
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RoboBob3000
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I just bought the Myst 10th anniversary edition, which includes the first three games. I've never played any of them, so this is big news for me. I'm currently salivating over the first one.

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10-14-2004 at 08:36 PM
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Oneiromancer
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Ah, old games. I had many many favorites. To this day the games I enjoy the most are the ones with similar attention to detail as some of the older games...which sometimes means retro games like Demise, but even Grand Theft Auto and its detail are in that style in my opinion.

On the computer, my first love was the Ultima series...my favorite was Ultima VII (including Serpent Isle) and then Ultima V, although IV will always have a special place in my heart.

Two of my favorite games on the NES were Bionic Commando and The Guardian Legend. And the Zelda series in pretty much all of its incarnations. I loved Blast Corps on N64...very unique and tons of extras that made it a long game indeed.

Game on,

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10-14-2004 at 09:48 PM
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wackhead_uk
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Amiga 1200 time!

If you've never heard of an Amiga, dont be surprised, but they were designed specifically for playing games on, so the games arent flickery or blurry or anything, and you can connect it up to any TV! James Pond II and III, Pinball fanatsies(oh the memories), and Turrican II, all classic games on that platform.

Sorry if I sound like an old man (Oooh, games were better in my day), but I played on it a bit ago, and it really is better than a SNES in most respects, but they are much rarer, making them better still!
10-14-2004 at 10:12 PM
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ErikH2000
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Oneiromancer wrote:
and then Ultima V, although IV will always have a special place in my heart.
The Ultima games were so ambitious for way back then. Thinking about how they crammed these massive world exploration RPGs you could play for months onto 2 double-sided floppies blows my mind. Ultima IV also has a special place in my heart, because it had this unique morality rewarding system in it. You could steal and beat up on poor people and do other bad things which gave some short-term gain, but it would be reflected in your virtue stats which come into play towards the end of the game.

Other games from that era that I have fond memories of:
- Boulder Dash (for a very good modern remake, see http://www.reflexive.net/index.php?PAGE=game_detail&CID=4381&AID=107&CAT=Puzzle&CATNAME=Puzzle&FLEXSTATE=Puzzle)
- Archon
- Mail-Order Monsters
- Robot Oddysey (and also I liked Rocky's Boots a lot, though it was more "educational" and aimed at younger kids.)
- The Infocom games--Zork, Planetfall, Hitchhiker's, etc.

From the 90s, the winner of that decade is the commercially-abandoned Subspace, which is still bustling with players after all these years. It is the classic networked battle game. I play it nearly every day.

I remember this freakish drive to get games and play them. One time I was working out in the yard at my Aunt's house for $2/hour, and I was thinking... "hey, I've worked 15 hours now. That means I have $30. 2 more hours and I can buy Zork for the Kaypro II." *** and then some hours later, I would consider that I now had enough money to buy Zork, but not quite enough to buy a newer Infocom game like Sorceror. Hmm. But should I get Sorceror or Enchanter? Is it better to have the first in the series or to have the newest? I would get my little brain worked up into a frenzy over stuff like this.

*** The Kaypro II had very few games available for it, mostly because it had no graphics. When Infocom decided to publish games for it, I was overcome with joy. Later I got an Atari 800XL (bought for with my own $90!) and then it became much easier to get games. Mostly I just bought empty disks after that. I was bad.

-Erik

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10-14-2004 at 10:43 PM
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HSE
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Ah... the old games...
Strangely, I like older games more than I like newer games - the older games focused more on gaming quality and a great experience. Most of today's games are just tools to make money - take a look at some of the new Final Fantasy series'. Do you really need 13 or so different versions of the same game?
There are a few exceptions, though. Take DROD for example. It's a wonderful game, and any errors or bugs which you may find can be reported on here and one of us will very helpfully guide you through the process. It's much better than a Grand Theft Auto or a Mortal Kombat forum where you are simply ignored as the other forum users flame, troll and disrupt anyone else who enters their "clan."
I speak from experience on this.
-Seb
10-14-2004 at 10:45 PM
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ErikH2000
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wackhead_uk wrote:
Amiga 1200 time!
Gads, I forgot about the Amiga!

I was a proud owner of an Amiga 500 with 20mb SCSI hard drive. (Actually two 10mb drives in this huge plastic case.) I bought it used from this guy in two payments. Later on I sold it one month when I was coming up short on rent.

Turrican was a fantastic game. The Amiga was well ahead of consoles like NES and SMS at that time for platformers and well... any type of game, really. In my opinion, at that time, the Amiga was the best personal computer you could own, followed up by the Atari ST and Mac. (You could run really decent ST and Mac emulators on the Amiga, BTW.) It was so disappointing to see boring IBM PCs take over the world. They didn't deserve it.

-Erik

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10-14-2004 at 10:54 PM
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Oneiromancer
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ErikH2000 wrote:
- Boulder Dash (for a very good modern remake, see http://www.reflexive.net/index.php?PAGE=game_detail&CID=4381&AID=107&CAT=Puzzle&CATNAME=Puzzle&FLEXSTATE=Puzzle)

That one looks neat, and I downloaded it to try it out, but I have had fun with Rocks'n'Diamonds...a bit more "retro", check it out if you haven't already.

Game on,

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10-14-2004 at 10:58 PM
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Oneiromancer
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Wow! Wik & the Fable of Souls is an amazing game! Very unique puzzle/action game that I am quite tempted to buy! I almost never get that sucked in by a game...but these guys did a really nice job.

Game on,

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10-15-2004 at 01:51 AM
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Schik
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Yeah, I agree, Wik & the Fable of Souls is a nice, polished game.

As for Boulderdash, my favorite clone is Safrosoft Rox. It has a much more modern look, and it's free and has tons of levels and a level editor.

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10-15-2004 at 02:02 AM
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Oneiromancer
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Yeah, I still have Rox...at one point I was frustrated and I wanted to get some custom levels, and then I found that their website was down. I did find this site a little while back, but by then I wasn't as interested in the game anymore.

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams
10-15-2004 at 02:08 AM
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gamer_extreme_101
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Nillo wrote:
"Spear of Destiny"
That name rings a bell. I know I've played it, but I can't remember a thing about it.
It's a little known Wolfenstein sequel. It was officially from iD, but only had 20 (21, really) levels and 5 bosses. The biggest addition in the game was ammo boxes which could give you 25 ammo. Nice for those boss levels.

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10-15-2004 at 02:28 AM
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Hey, I got something for you Ultima lovers ! Nazghul, what an ambitious name, is OpenSource remake of Ultima(I)V.
Very similar. It's in alpha stage, but playable to a degree and you can see it's gone past "wishful thinking" stage.
They need contributors, so if you ever dreamed about making your own Ultima world, this chance is for you. Files are easy to edit so you can add towns, characters etc. If I remember correctly they want to make world about 4 times as big as in Ult4

http://myweb.cableone.net/gmcnutt/nazghul.html

My first experience with Ultima was Ult3 on... Atari 65XE. My brother pretty much finished the game (he was able to get to Exodus without finding exotic weapons). What he didn't find were exotics, Dawn... an it never occured to him to Search the shrines. He was stuck for months and never finished. My english was very poor back then...

Ultima4 is my favourite. 5 tries to do too much eyecandy, and it's simply tiresome.
---------------------------------
About "forum quality" - it all depends on how demanding the game is. DROD is very demanding, because idiots can't play it.

Just look at Dominions2 forum (illwinter.com/dom2 blah blah). These guys are impressive. They even write AAR's (After Action Reports), story-like reports from their singleplayer games against AI ! And it needs to be said AI is really dangerous and doesn't cheat. Even if it can't build fortifications.

Dom2 is very hardcore (a bit too much for me) fantasy strategy game, with focus on multiplayer. But sheer athmosphere keeps sucking me back. Partly because of charming instrumental music.Download demo and check yourself..

[Edited by b0rsuk at Local Time:12-18-2004 at 09:02 AM]

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12-18-2004 at 08:51 AM
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Nillo wrote:
I'd say that in the ol' days of Nintendo, Gameboy, etc. gameplay possibilities were limited because of system requirements. But as of today with the current systems it is entirely possible to make whatever games you want, and new consoles only improve graphics and nothing more.

There are still a lot of improvements to be made in creating an expansive and immersive world and better physics requiring computers more powerful then those of today.


I feel a bit young here, what with my first gaming system being a Sega genesis. My fondest memories are of the original Sonic (my very first game), Bullfrogs Theme Park and of course the Lost Vikings. That was my best not pure action game on the genesis, and still remains one of my favorite puzzle games to this day.


I don't think that older games are better, because as newer technologies invented gaming as a whole benifits. The one thing that I miss is 2D. I think it still had quite a way to go and many good games could be made in 2D.
12-18-2004 at 01:18 PM
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ErikH2000 wrote:
From the 90s, the winner of that decade is the commercially-abandoned Subspace, which is still bustling with players after all these years. It is the classic networked battle game. I play it nearly every day.

What's a good modern server to play on? I've gone back to Subspace a couple times but every server I could access was either empty or some strange place that had the fun modded out of it (Star Wars death trench, I'm looking at you). I'd love to play some Subspace Classic, if you know what I mean.
12-18-2004 at 05:10 PM
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ErikH2000
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jdyer wrote:
What's a good modern server to play on? I've gone back to Subspace a couple times but every server I could access was either empty or some strange place that had the fun modded out of it (Star Wars death trench, I'm looking at you). I'd love to play some Subspace Classic, if you know what I mean.
Well, that's a good question. In your "Directory Service Address List" here is what I have "sscentral.sscuservers.net sscentral.subspacehq.com sscentral.subspace.net subspacenetwork.com". The SS ones I think come preinstalled with Continuum (Subspace client). The "subspacenetwork.com" server has a chuckload of other zones--so many that I have not looked through them all.

My favorite zone of all time is:
SSCX Warzone/ASWZ CTF

This is classic ship settings and there is a game here which takes forever to learn how to play decently, but once you do, it's very rewarding. Basically, it's capture the flag with teams of no more than 10 players. As years have gone by, different roles, tactics, and strategies have evolved. There's a lot of elitists and jerks on the zone and some people take it all too seriously. The zone population is decent (20 or more active players) from maybe 3pm to 10pm. If your interest is piqued, I recommend reading the warzone FAQ to avoid severe flaming. Actually, I mean to avoid most of the severe flaming--some of that is inevitable.

If you want classic ships, but no fancy rules--just killing other people--then try SSCX Alpha West SVS. I've never seen that zone empty.

Classic ship rules are worth something. They have been tuned for balance over the course of years. As you get to know the ships, their behaviors seem worth admiration. I feel like most of the zones with modded ship rules have a self-indulgent feel to them that ruins the fun. I mean is Chess a better game if the pawns can move sideways too? So mostly I stick with the classic zones.

Some other fun zones that are a departure from classic rules:

SSCX Powerball - It's like playing soccer with subspace ships. People will yell at you when you make newbie mistakes, but I think a few hours of playing will get you avoiding all the really dumb mistakes.

SSCU Trench Wars - This is a cool little diversion good for a spare 15 minutes. The ships are highly customized, but not in an asenine "look how powerful they are" kind of way. No, they've been drastically specialized so each is only good for one or two things. For example, the terrier is the only ship that can be attached to, so it's mostly just used for transporting other ships. Sharks can lay bombs and repel, so they are mainly used for base defense or dismantling an enemy's defense. My one complaint about TW, is that it's too "beer and pretzels" for my taste--I like an epic hour-long struggle to take a base, then being able to keep it with skill, strategy, and teamwork. TW is more like "They got the base. Ha! Now we got it! Doh. Now they got it. That was silly!"

SSCX Extreme Games - Here, the ships are customized in an asenine "look how powerful they are" way, but if you want to try a zone like that, this is one of the best ones. They have capture the flag with these really huge bases. If people are stowing flags in bases and defending them, as opposed to staying out in the open and just killing people, than this can be a better-than-average zone to play.

If you see "Doodaw" on a zone, that is probably me.

-Erik

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12-18-2004 at 07:18 PM
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jdyer
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ErikH2000 wrote:
I like an epic hour-long struggle to take a base, then being able to keep it with skill, strategy, and teamwork.

I've been in those. The server I played on the most back in the day was one of the CTF ones (I can't remember if it was East or West, but they never changed the layout.) There were always at least 3 or 4 teams and plenty of fun choices for bases.

[Edited by jdyer at Local Time:12-18-2004 at 07:44 PM]
12-18-2004 at 07:44 PM
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