adS
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 214
Registered: 05-02-2010
IP: Logged

Annex 1N1E is broken;

Hit the orb at (25,27) on move 60 and the orb at (25,29) on move 62. Turn the sword to East on (26,21).

The scroll suggests you might be aware of this (?).

Best wishes,

adS

PS

One room left...

____________________________
pauca sed matura

---

[Last edited by adS at 07-10-2015 02:38 PM]

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

Have finished the main hold. Might be a while before I get to all the secrets; some of those are pretty tough. Excellent hold. It really leads you by the hand asthe difficulty level increases. For the most part. There were a couple of rooms that were markedly more tricky but that's what the H&S board is for.

Comments:
UJ
2N5E & 2N6E – Both become pretty easy if you wait for the right time to strike the orb. Or is that intended? In that case, neither room requires the lower trapdoor alcove and 2N5E doesn’t need the middle wall. (As I see ads already mentioned.)

US
1S – Checkpoint placement could be improved, maybe at 13,19 and 2,22?
4E – Did not require broken wall at 11,15. Intended?
5S1E – Not everyone uses UU so a checkpoint around 26,26 for the end game bit (which for me was the hardest to figure out) would be appreciated.
4S1E – First room I needed help on. Was using the completely wrong shape to generate the baby horde and needed a nudge in the right direction. But good room.

UF
1N3E – I used the queen twice. Was this intended? It felt a bit messy, but maybe that was just my messy solution. A fun room all the same.

3N – so much fun
4N2E – is the 2x2 gate a red herring?

Note: my entry for the 10x10 contest is similar to one of your rooms in UF. I did create it before playing through your hold. (Really enjoyed that level btw, though for me it was generally easier than earlier levels.)

adS
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 214
Registered: 05-02-2010
IP: Logged

Comments:
UJ
2N5E & 2N6E – Both become pretty easy if you wait for the right time to strike the orb. Or is that intended? In that case, neither room requires the lower trapdoor alcove and 2N5E doesn’t need the middle wall. (As I see ads already mentioned.)

Excellent idea - I hadn't noticed that. I have hit the orbs as early as possible. But waiting is even faster. I don't think that's intended.

What about challenges "hit the orb on move xxx.
On the other hand that's a BIG spoiler.

US 4E – Did not require broken wall at 11,15. Intended?

I did not use that wall, either.

5S1E – Not everyone uses UU so a checkpoint around 26,26 for the end game bit (which for me was the hardest to figure out) would be appreciated.

You mean UL 5s1E, right? Good idea


UF
1N3E – I used the queen twice. Was this intended? It felt a bit messy, but maybe that was just my messy solution. A fun room all the same.

I used the construct twice. That's interesting. Perhaps Chaco might add a scroll...

UF 4N2E – is the 2x2 gate a red herring?

I use the 2x2 door to "park" golems and 3 golems only. However, I believe the room can be solved with 3 golems and without the door.
Best wishes,

adS



____________________________
pauca sed matura

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3625
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

noma wrote:
UJ
2N5E & 2N6E – Both become pretty easy if you wait for the right time to strike the orb. Or is that intended? In that case, neither room requires the lower trapdoor alcove and 2N5E doesn’t need the middle wall. (As I see ads already mentioned.)

That's intended.

US
1S – Checkpoint placement could be improved, maybe at 13,19 and 2,22?

Sure, I'll put some near there.

4E – Did not require broken wall at 11,15. Intended?

Intended; it's a red herring. As part of the normal routing process it should become clear that roaches shouldn't even go near there.

UL
5S1E – Not everyone uses UU so a checkpoint around 26,26 for the end game bit (which for me was the hardest to figure out) would be appreciated.

Sure, easily added.

UF
1N3E – I used the queen twice. Was this intended? It felt a bit messy, but maybe that was just my messy solution. A fun room all the same.

Hmm, did you use the roach queen on the northwest eye? I see now that it's possible to do so since spikes don't kill roach queens until after they've spawned.
I'm going to fix that by adding some more spike traps and extending that hallway by one square, which should make it impossible to use the roach queen for that one (without making it too obvious on first glance).

4N2E – is the 2x2 gate a red herring?

Not really. It's handy to use as temporary storage for the lone golem as you move over towards the eastern golems, but you don't strictly need to use it.

Glad you had fun playing!

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3625
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Alright, here's a minor update.

- Checkpoints added as per noma's suggestions
- Untenable Factory 1N3E has had exactly one tile changed, that should be enough to prevent an unintended solution while definitely preserving the intended solution

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

Chaco wrote:
- Untenable Factory 1N3E has had exactly one tile changed, that should be enough to prevent an unintended solution while definitely preserving the intended solution

That certainly is much tidier than what I was doing. There are still two possible solutions:

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

adS wrote:
Unlicensed Laboratory

2S3E: This room was invented by the devil

By far the best room in the hold!

And probably not what a beginner would expect.
Excellent - unless somebody solves it '"naively" with the original time limit'.

Yeah, I'm gonna need a nudge. It seems to be impossible(?) to clear all the tar in the second chamber in one go and still have time to turn my sword around to kill the roach after hitting the second orb. So what am I missing? Can't enter the chamber more than once and I have to clear all the tar to drop the black doors. Can't enter early or the queen simply spawns earlier. I've noted the different coloured flooring which I'm assuming(?) is meant to hint at something, but damned if I know what. Hint please?

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3625
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

noma wrote:
I've noted the different coloured flooring which I'm assuming(?) is meant to hint at something, but damned if I know what. Hint please?

The different-colored flooring is just meant to hint at what squares of mud were added between the normal room and the secret room.

So, as you've learned from 2S2E, you can gain time by not killing mud babies, but there's still a minimum number of cuts that you must make in order to remove the blob.

In 2S2E, there are 13 cuts to make, but in 2S3E there are 20 cuts.



Fun fact: 2S2E and 2S3E were inspired by the Odd Jobs series' ice block chopping rooms.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

Dur. What's funny is that in 2S2E that's the first thing I considered when trying to find a workaround for the intended solution. Of course it quickly became obvious that it wouldn't work. I should have noticed the other difference between the rooms. Ha. Nice.

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

UF: 4N3E - I feel like I broke this room. I didn't need the queens at all. Intended?

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3625
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

noma wrote:
UF: 4N3E - I feel like I broke this room. I didn't need the queens at all. Intended?

Not intended. Can I have a demo?

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

UF:

4N3E - I feel like I broke this room. I didn't need the queens at all. Intended?

4N - It's madness I tell you, madness!

Mastered. On the the Annex.

adS
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 214
Registered: 05-02-2010
IP: Logged

Chaco wrote:
Hmm, did you use the roach queen on the northwest eye? I see now that it's possible to do so since spikes don't kill roach queens until after they've spawned.

????

What do you mean?

Best wishes, adS

PS have you seen my comment regarding Annex 1N1E?

____________________________
pauca sed matura

adS
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 214
Registered: 05-02-2010
IP: Logged

noma wrote:
[UF]4N - It's madness I tell you, madness!

The previous version was much harder

Best regards,

adS

____________________________
pauca sed matura

---

[Last edited by adS at 07-11-2015 06:40 AM]

adS
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 214
Registered: 05-02-2010
IP: Logged

File: unintended.demo (5 KB)
Downloaded 43 times.
License: Public Domain

Chaco wrote:

noma wrote:
UF: 4N3E - I feel like I broke this room. I didn't need the queens at all. Intended?

Not intended. Can I have a demo?

Here is mine.
It is - compared with the intended solution - ugly and longer(?) but unintended.

However, is an unintended solution really a problem if it is longer than the intended one? For me the intended solution was much easier to find.

Best wishes,

adS

____________________________
pauca sed matura

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

File: PC Untenable Factory 4N3E Victory.demo (5.8 KB)
Downloaded 46 times.
License: Public Domain

Sorry I missed your post last night. Here it is.

---

[Last edited by noma at 07-11-2015 02:19 PM]

adS
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 214
Registered: 05-02-2010
IP: Logged

noma wrote:
Sorry I missed your post last night. Here it is.

I have posted a demo for this US, too.

It is 1 move shorter

Best wishes,

adS


____________________________
pauca sed matura

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

adS wrote:
I have posted a demo for this US, too.

It is 1 move shorter

Best wishes,

adS

But I never post my best demos. Heh heh.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3625
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

adS wrote:
PS have you seen my comment regarding Annex 1N1E?

Yes, I did, and I think the scroll pretty clearly implies it's broken and you can solve it any way you want.

As for Untenable Factory 4N3E, that's a neat solution and kind of hard to see in advance (due to it being dependent on movement order). I don't think there's any good way of preventing that happening, and I don't mind that being a way of solving the room, so I won't be fixing it.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

adS
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 214
Registered: 05-02-2010
IP: Logged

noma wrote:

adS wrote:
I have posted a demo for this US, too.

It is 1 move shorter

Best wishes,

adS

But I never post my best demos. Heh heh.

Nor do I - heh heh...

____________________________
pauca sed matura

adS
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 214
Registered: 05-02-2010
IP: Logged

UC 1S1E

Please move checkpoint (10,6) to (11,6) so that roaches behind (11,21) cannot see you. And add checkpoint at (13,14).

adS

____________________________
pauca sed matura

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3625
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

Alright, I've made one more update that moves some more checkpoints around as per adS' suggestions.

At this point I think the hold is ready to promote, so I've sent it off to the Hold Administrators. Thanks so much for your comments, everyone!

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

adS
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 214
Registered: 05-02-2010
IP: Logged

Erm, when will it be published?

Best wishes,

adS


____________________________
pauca sed matura

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3625
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

When the Hold Administrators get around to finishing their checks. Schik has already run through the hold and given it the OK, and Dischorran says he's done with the first two levels. Of course, some other HA could potentially also step in if they want.

So, give it some time. Now that Pass the Hold Around has been published, this hold is basically the primary hold still left in the queue.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):