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skell
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This first post was rewritten.

Narrow Perspectives is all about puzzles and, pretty much, about nothing else. It feature one level with 49 puzzles ranging from pretty easy to pretty hard and includes all the rooms I've made during the stream with Gamer.

There is also a section to the south which is linear and features a custom-made monster, an uncalled being which devours everything it touches.

I consider the hold finished. No new rooms will be added, and hopefully all that is left to do is fixing potential USes :).

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[Last edited by skell at 04-14-2015 07:35 AM]
02-01-2015 at 12:08 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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Bug: If you hit the special command key immediately after clearing a room, it doesn't get counted. I did this in the first room because I was confused about what to do after hitting the token.

Also, I was able to move the right platform in Room 2, and after a few moves it teleported me back to the right entrance. On top of that, it was adding one to the Rooms Cleared count every time I did that.

I don't know enough about scripting to have suggestions for fixing that. There may be other platforms that aren't working right, I just started.

Edit: Yeah, the platforms on the top side of 3E have the same issue. There are probably others.

Edit again: Seems that almost all platforms are weird in this regard, but they work as intended if the player waits. It looks like the easiest option is to make them something other than platforms.

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 02-01-2015 12:32 AM]
02-01-2015 at 12:23 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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On further investigation, I think all the platforms are bugged. Here's what's going on, as far as I can tell.

On the turn immediately after you either escape with the special command or get a room-clear teleport, pressing a direction immediately sends you in that direction without ever stepping on the platform.

If you try to step on a platform at any other time, you end up on that platform and can move it. Staying still causes you to warp to where you should. Moving far enough towards the center of the room makes the script think you've cleared that room again, so it teleports you to the exit and increases the Rooms Cleared variable.

The quick fix for the platform issue is to replace them with walls or put impassable objects on them.

Edit: I went to 3N1E, the disarm token room, and after that I was disarmed in every room I went to. I'm not sure if this is because of something to do with the platforms breaking or something in that room, but either way it renders most of the rooms unbeatable.

Edit again: I think that's something in the room itself, the dagger room gave me the same issue.
Also, using the special command to switch levels increases the "Rooms Cleared" count by one if you've cleared the entrance.

Edit 3: It seems that the teleport from the special command activates after monsters move, so I still die if I'm one move away from death and then try to retreat. Or maybe it's a consequence of this bug with teleporting, in which case it won't be a problem if that's fixed in the next version.
Oh, and the persistent disarmament/weapon switching last when you switch levels, too, which probably requires a different fix from just switching rooms.
(by the way, please let me know if I should make new posts instead of repeated editing when I go back and find something else)

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 02-01-2015 01:15 AM]
02-01-2015 at 12:46 AM
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skell
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That's what you get for posting your hold at 2AM :).

Thanks a bunch you can for now skip any scripting reports II think I now know all I need to do :).

Man I feel so ashamed now :blush

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02-01-2015 at 09:34 AM
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skell
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Okay, all scripting issues should be fixed now. It took a moment to fix, but I've also caught a number of different bugs, hold updated in the first post.

In the future I'll try to refrain myself from posting holds in the middle of the night :).

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02-01-2015 at 11:44 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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I made a post about some issues still in there, but it got eaten because my access to the forum has been sporadic today.

-Biggest one: The instant teleport after clearing the room only works if you kill the last enemy with your weapon. If a snake dies in a dead end, or an enemy dies to spikes or other hazards, then you can still leave with the special command button and mess with the rooms cleared count.
-Speaking of which, the rooms cleared count is still a bit buggy. Sometimes when I go to a new floor, it immediately says I've cleared one room there when I haven't. In addition, on Floor 2 it said I'd cleared X out of Y "EasyrRooms", and then when I went to Floor 3 it still said EasyrRooms.
-Also, this is mainly cosmetic, but you're still disarmed after leaving the disarm token room; it's just that you get your sword back when starting a new puzzle. Same goes for the dagger room (and presumably any other weapon token rooms that I never got to). I expected to see Beethro with a sword as soon as he left those rooms, but since he has the sword when he gets to a new puzzle room it's just a question of how it looks.
02-01-2015 at 09:40 PM
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skell
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A new version is up in the first post! No new puzzles yet, only fixed the issues found by Dragon Fogel.

-Biggest one: The instant teleport after clearing the room only works if you kill the last enemy with your weapon. If a snake dies in a dead end, or an enemy dies to spikes or other hazards, then you can still leave with the special command button and mess with the rooms cleared count.
Good catch. Now if you escape from the puzzle a required target is automatically added to the room so it is impossible for you to win in this situation.
Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about the delay which occurs by killing via spike traps because it happens after all monsters (including global script characters) are processed.

-Speaking of which, the rooms cleared count is still a bit buggy. Sometimes when I go to a new floor, it immediately says I've cleared one room there when I haven't. In addition, on Floor 2 it said I'd cleared X out of Y "EasyrRooms", and then when I went to Floor 3 it still said EasyrRooms.
This happened if you cleared a room and teleport to a different level without leaving the room first - it is now fixed.
Also room names are now correct.

-Also, this is mainly cosmetic, but you're still disarmed after leaving the disarm token room; it's just that you get your sword back when starting a new puzzle. Same goes for the dagger room (and presumably any other weapon token rooms that I never got to). I expected to see Beethro with a sword as soon as he left those rooms, but since he has the sword when he gets to a new puzzle room it's just a question of how it looks.
I made it so that the character state now always defaults to Unarmed Beethro when you complete/escape from a room.

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02-07-2015 at 05:10 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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Played around a bit, the fixes all seem to be working. I'll let you know if I find any other weird side effects of scripting or places where you overlooked a fix.

Puzzle-wise, I've cleared 2E on Hard, stumbled around on 1E for a while before giving up, and have no idea what I'm even trying to do on 1S. 2E could definitely use a checkpoint for people who don't use unlimited undo; maybe one near each corner. It would be nice to have one at Beethro's starting location on 1E, too.

I'll have more comments when I've gone through Easy and Medium. I'm enjoying it overall, though.
02-07-2015 at 06:19 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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Medium 2E: I don't see the point of the pressure plate. The room can be beaten either triggering it or not, and I don't see an easier solution that would be available if it weren't there.

Medium 2S: This appears unsolveable because you can't light the fuse. I also haven't been able to get the left or right eyes activated, but I don't know if that's because they can't be or if I just haven't worked out the right way to manipulate the golem.

Medium 1S1E: I couldn't figure this one out. I was able to maneuver the roach to the southeast without waking any eyes, but I couldn't figure out a way to get it into the snake's pen that didn't kill me.

Now let me see if I can work out those two Hard rooms.
02-07-2015 at 07:49 PM
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skell
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Updated hold in the first post with a fix to Medium 2S and with added checkpoints everywhere.

@Medium 2E - It's a red herring. It's meant to lure the player into thinking that they should be going in that direction.

@Medium 2S - It's possible to get all the eyes but yea, in the process of prettifying I made the fuse unlightable - fixed.

@Medium 1S1E - Do note that the roach moves before the serpent!

@Hard 1S - It is certainly possible albeit it might be quite tricky.

Edit: Also thanks a bunch for playing it!

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[Last edited by skell at 02-07-2015 09:14 PM]
02-07-2015 at 09:14 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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Thanks, figured out everything except Hard 1E now. Hard 1S was really tricky, but mostly it was a matter of figuring out which pressure plates needed to be pressed at what times and then working out how to press them. And the new checkpoints are appreciated.

Should I have two roaches following me on Hard 1E, or should I be trying to figure out a way to save a third?
02-07-2015 at 10:20 PM
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skell
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Dragon Fogel wrote:
Should I have two roaches following me on Hard 1E, or should I be trying to figure out a way to save a third?
You need two roaches to get one into one of the chambers and two to get one roach into another - knowing that you can reuse the blocking roach, the absolute minimum is 3 roaches left alive at the moment you get first one into one of the two chambers.

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02-07-2015 at 10:41 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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Got it now, thanks.

Oh, one minor error I forgot to mention earlier - Easy has 21 rooms, but the total says 22.
02-07-2015 at 11:32 PM
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Dischorran
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Here's a demo pack of everything except Hard:1E, to check over for USes. I haven't managed to save a third roach; I save two in the recently opened door, but then need to kill the third one following behind and the five or so coming at me from the other side.

Tutorial: At least it's skippable, but really, who's going to play this who doesn't know what an orb does? I wonder if there's some challenge that can be built in, like clearing the entire level in some minimal number of moves.

All levels: It might make more sense to describe room difficulty in terms of north/south/east/west instead of up/down/right/left. Having platforms at exitless edges was annoying for exploration purposes, but I imagine it's easier to take them out only once the hold's finalized.

Otherwise, the rooms are very nice and I mostly just have player convenience comments on level 2:
2S: Can you use lights to color code the plates to the doors?
1S1E: A vision token might be nice here.
1S3E: Noticeably harder than the rest of the level, although still easier than the hard level.
3E: The NW door toggles instead of opening. Effectively the same, but the rest of the hold is clean enough to make it stand out.

It's a well polished hold! (See what I did there?)

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[Last edited by Dischorran at 02-11-2015 04:38 AM]
02-11-2015 at 04:38 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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Additional hint for Hard 1E:

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02-11-2015 at 07:04 AM
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Updated the hold in the first post:
- Easy 1S - made it so trapping the roach behind the force arrows locks it out (US by Dis)
- Easy 2S3E - you are now forced to enter the snake chamber yourself, plus the change made it a bit more difficulty so at some point in the future it might be moved down
- Added one new room to Easy, two to Medium and three to Hard - the are available to the north of the Entrance
- I went ahead and removed the edge tiles from rooms which are not accessible anyway, I'll just go through the trouble of adding them as needed
- Medium 2S - added color codes for plates and eyes
- Medium 1S1E - Added vision token
- Medium 3S - added color coding

Thanks for the demos Dischorranit was very insightful!

Tutorial: At least it's skippable, but really, who's going to play this who doesn't know what an orb does? I wonder if there's some challenge that can be built in, like clearing the entire level in some minimal number of moves.
True. It's an artifact of the original idea for the hold which I scrapped but I felt bad about throwing out a bunch of rooms without much thought so I decided to leave it as is for now and unless I can come up with a better idea they will be removed at some point in the future.

All levels: It might make more sense to describe room difficulty in terms of north/south/east/west instead of up/down/right/left.
Yea, good point. I think I'll make it so that each difficult level will be divided into four sub-difficulty sectors available to the N, S, E and W to the entrance and I'll keep them separate from each other.

Having platforms at exitless edges was annoying for exploration purposes, but I imagine it's easier to take them out only once the hold's finalized.
Fixed that for you. I'll just go through the trouble as required, plus it accidentally gave me a pretty neat idea I'll try to add in the next version.

As for Hard 1E - the moment I am safe from any danger I have four roaches remaining:
Click here to view the secret text


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02-11-2015 at 09:47 AM
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skell
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Updated the hold. Be aware that all of the rooms have been shuffled, it is all in one level, introduction rooms have been removed as well as half of the easy ones and the old progress and demos won't work :).

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04-03-2015 at 10:54 PM
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Yet another update. The hold is now pretty much done. I've finished the southern section, fixed some bugs in the scripting, named each room and wrote the end text. Oh and I've also completed it from the beginning to the very end - feel free to check the attached demos to compare solutions. I am very interested in fixing USes.

I am planning to push the hold to HAs in 3 days, so if you're planning to play and give your comments just say so when the deadline gets closer and I'll obviously wait for all input.

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04-05-2015 at 01:33 AM
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Dischorran
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Working through the hold now. I'll shoot for a full demo set, but right now I can say that 1N1W has a couple plate wiring issues.

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04-05-2015 at 04:56 AM
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skell
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Thanks, I've fixed the associations in 1N1W and fixed the lighting as it was supposed to be a little bit darker in this room and use color light to hint at the correct pressure plates. Hold updated in the first post.

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04-05-2015 at 09:51 AM
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Dischorran
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Here are demos for most of the rooms; the harder ones haven't been done yet.

There's another plate wiring issue in 3N3W.

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04-06-2015 at 03:59 AM
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I was bored so I downloaded this and started killing things. I'll probably have a full demo set in a couple days, definitely by the end of the week. The rooms are generally pretty interesting, so that's good. A couple, like 5N felt a little tedious because of the repeated moving, but it wasn't too bad,

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04-06-2015 at 06:03 AM
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skell
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The hold has been updated in the first post.

Changes:
- 2N2E - You've found a neat US here. First I wanted to fix it, but now I am going to make it possible, under a condition. I've added two yellow gates on the sides.
- 3N2W - This room was meant to be a little darker for the colored lights to makes sense.
- 3N2E - I've changed this room solution a bit because until I've seen your demo I couldn't figure out how to steer the eye to be able to free one of the golems without locking the other.
- 3N3E - Wow. That was quite an US. The Idea here is that you shouldn't be allowed to drop all of the trapdoors. I've added a Mastery area with this room which forces this solution.
- 4N2E - Another US. I need to remember that pits don't equal walls once you have a pushing weapon equipped.
- 4N2W - The solution assumed you can't let the tar grow out of the room but I guess I failed to enforce it. I've changed the solution a little bit now, hopefully it will now work as intended.
- 3N3W - Fixed the wiring issue.

Thanks very much Dischorran, I appreciate the effort!

Blorx, thanks, I'll wait those couple of days then. I don't entirely agree with 5N being that tedious, since if you are careful it takes only a short moment to get all the top pressure plates hit. Then again I know how to do it more or less optimally so nevermind :).

If you have comments about specific rooms I'd be glad to know them.



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04-06-2015 at 10:30 AM
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I could've sworn some of those were intended.

I generally give testers a couple of weeks for testing significant updates - takes pressure off of those who have lives outside DROD. :)

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04-06-2015 at 11:44 PM
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skell
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Sure. I didn't point it out I guess but I am perfectly fine with waiting more than a couple of days :).

So to make it clear: if anyone wants to play this hold before it is HAed just say how much time you feel you need and if it's less than a month I won't complain. If it's more I can't promise complain-free eperience :).

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04-06-2015 at 11:54 PM
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Despite the fact that I should be doing my homework, I finished the hold. It wasn't too hard and I finished in about 3 hours. I'd gauge the difficulty at around 6 brains, with the harder rooms maybe hitting 7ish, if I'm being generous.

I suspect I broke more rooms that Dischorran did, just because I'm lazy. The southern line was a bit harder than the rest of the hold, the last room was tricky. I'm pretty sure there's still some strange stuff that you didn't try to exploit that you could have.

I don't have too many room specific comments, since the majority of the rooms revolved around doing some sort of execution. I think the post mastery area is unreachable since the teleport doesn't seem to take me there.

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04-07-2015 at 02:06 AM
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Dischorran
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If I try to escape the entrance early, I lose my sword. That brain's a jerk.

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04-07-2015 at 04:16 AM
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skell
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I just started watching, but seeing how you've devastated 4N3E... Makes me sad :(. Would adding a brain to this room invalidate your solution?

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04-07-2015 at 09:54 AM
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Disregards the last post.

Changes:
- 4N3E: I've changed the room a bit and now you just can't wake any eye, otherwise you'll get stuck.
- 5N2E: You've kinda broke 5N2E since you killed one goblin, but that actually made the room harder in my opinion so I am not going to do any protection against this.
- 5N: The bombs are not supposed to be exploded, although I don't think it helped you in any way. From what it looks to me you accidentally made the room way more tedious for yourself :). I've changed it though that it should now be impossible to blow them up.
- 5N1W: You broke it completely, but I've managed to fix it, I hope.
- 3N: The trick in this room is to figure out you can step back from the token and go with any weapon you wish and you've managed to break the northern exit, which I have fixed.
- 4N3W: Using bombs to kill eyes? Man, you are an evil, evil person. Fixed this, I moved the bombs a little to the center.
- 4N: You can no longer use the south passage with both Beethros.
- 1N2W: I like your US so much I am going to leave it there.
- 4S: Fixed the US by moving the orb two tiles to the south.
- Entrance: Took me a moment to figure out what you were talking about, Dischorran, but ultimately I've fixed the issue :).

Now I know why I don't make DROD puzzles, so many USes :(.

Thanks Blorx a lot btw.

Ah, and the hold has been updated in the first post.

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[Last edited by skell at 04-07-2015 11:39 AM]
04-07-2015 at 11:39 AM
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I think most of the rooms work now.

For 5N2E, you may want to note that I can adapt my strategy to avoid dropping trapdoors (an interesting challenge) or that I can do it while dropping a trapdoor on the west side and using a roach, which does only require a single goblin, which might be easier.

For 4N3W my demo was actually supposed to demonstrate the fact that you can teleport out of the room to get the eyes unstuck, and I didn't even notice that I was killing eyes with bombs.

Here's another demo for 5N1W that might be broken.

For 4N I can still adapt my original solution by switching to the southern beethro as whenever the adder is in a bad spot.



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04-08-2015 at 02:23 AM
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