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Quewort
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icon TRoSS (Three Rooms of Sundry Styles) (+3)  
What is this, TRoSS? TRoSS are three pictures of ambient rooms. The main idea of TRoSS is design helping or something...
There's my TRoSS#1:



And there's my TRoSS#2:





Send your own TRoSS in the comments, I'd like to see it! ;)


[Last edited by Quewort at 01-23-2015 10:06 PM]
01-23-2015 at 09:33 PM
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Banjooie
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icon Re: TRoSS (Three Rooms of Sundry Styles) (0)  
I feel this is one of those threads where we need Erik to come in and make any of it make sense.
01-24-2015 at 12:17 AM
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Jacob
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Quewort wrote:
The main idea of TRoSS is design helping or something...
Keep up, Banjooie

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[Last edited by Jacob at 01-24-2015 02:18 AM]
01-24-2015 at 02:17 AM
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Insoluble
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Banjooie wrote:
I feel this is one of those threads where we need Erik to come in and make any of it make sense.

A quick look at Quewort's posting history reveals the OP to be someone who is very much interested in the aesthetics of hold design:

Exhibit 1:
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=39239&page=0#391808
My idea is to create a hold without any puzzles...
A hold would have a few levels with certain style and place (a cave, for example).
Thus, a player will pass through these beautiful rooms and can rate it.
Probably, this hold will help with building rooms.

Exhibit 2: (A hold in the architecture forum)
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=39233&page=0#391716

I for one share this interest. I tend to enjoy holds that put a lot of thought into the feel and look of the rooms above and beyond just the puzzles. I'm not particularly good at it myself, but appreciate it when I see it.

I think the point of this thread is to perhaps exhibit rooms that have a particularly nice aesthetic quality to them. I would definitely find such a thread worthwhile. Quewort, I would be interested in your thought process in designing rooms you posted. To me that have a fairly realistic natural and somewhat soothing feel. Is that what you were going for? What small details did you particularly put a lot of thought into? I really like the first screenshot with the two citizens observing a plant object in the middle of a slightly asymmetrical lake.

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01-24-2015 at 04:58 AM
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Quewort
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I am fond of holds in great details. When I playing such holds, I feel... I even can't explain this feeling :D. Design equals to puzzles. A hold must not to be just a couple of puzzles... It's boring to play this. But hold with incredible design is more valuable.



01-24-2015 at 07:58 AM
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Jacob
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Quewort's hold in architecture has some very nice aesthetics and some lovely innovative puzzles - keep up the good work!

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01-24-2015 at 09:30 AM
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DezzTech
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Greetings, fellow appreciator of the visual part of level design!

Ahem, I mean, yo. Sup.

I'd like to offer a bit of critique.

Nice screens you got there, but I have to say they kinda suffer from the "Generic Good Design Syndrome" That's totally a scientific term and I totally did not just make it up myself, I swear!

What I mean by that is that five of your screens (out of six you've posted) share the same exact design style with very little difference. And what I mean by that is that they share a lot of common elements both in design and literally. To be more precise: "natural" looking rough walls, randomly scattered rubble/trees, puddles of water, lighting effects, darkness.

I'm afraid that's not exactly "sundry".

Do not, under any circumstance be discouraged by what I just said though. I called it "Generic Good Design Syndrome" for a reason (how do I put more emphasis on the word "good"?). The problem is not that you're a bad designer, no, in fact, it's quite opposite, you're good and you should keep practicing, you'll only improve and get even better! The problem is that your rooms look "generic". I assume you got really good at one style of architecture (natural looking, in this instance) and naturally that's what you want to stick to, since you're good at it. I know that, because I kinda went through that phase myself and I've seen a lot of artists do the same. What you should do instead is practise other design styles and try to experiment and deviate more. Try to make your levels look more unique, try adding some kinda gimmick that makes the level memorable, try limiting yourself in some way. I used to think that phrase "limitations breed imagination" is stupid and that you should always use the full potential of the tools you use/things that game offers you, but it turned out true.

For example, try making a whole level without using darkness and lights at all. That way you'll be forced to think how to make the level look better and more interesting without using fancy lightning effects. And also that will add a unique feeling to the level, as in, it's one of the levels that doesn't use lighning (But that's not really a very unique or interesting thing). I can say that your icy screenshot would look very good even without the lightning.

Also, it would probably be easier to find some good ideas if you look at something for inspiration. Like other DROD rooms. Find some room that you think looks good and try to imitate its design style. Stare at the room you like for a few minutes or hours (yo, art is hard, okay?) as necessary, and ask yourself, what do you like about that room. Can you do something similar? Then do it! Does it look good to you? Yes? No? Doesn't matter! Keep practicing, and you'll get better and better, there's no limit to how good you can be, I can assure you. Learning by imitation is probably the easiest way to get better. Doesn't matter if you good at it or bad, that way you have a very clear objective in mind and you improve your own style without even realising it.

And please don't take anything I said as an order that you have to do right now. No, that's just some advice I give as someone who went through the process of learning level design himself and wants to show a way for people who are interested in it. And that's not the only way, in fact you can just ignore everything I said and do everything your own way, and eventually you will get better sooner or later (mad rhyme, yo). Level design is art (no matter how much I hate that word), there's no single correct way to do it. You can consider everything I wrote as just an example of what you can do. See for yourself what you want to do, maybe you'll find at least something that's useful for you.

Now for some random protips that I couldn't shoehorn into the wall of text above.
- Don't try to force yourself to make levels when you're not really feeling it. Unless you're really good your levels will probably look ugly even to yourself.
- Sometimes the puzzles are what make the room look good. No, that's not a metaphor or anything. I mean, literally, sometimes I just make a puzzle, look at it and say: DAYUM, that looks GOOD
- There was something else I wanted to write, too bad I forgot it already. And my coffee is now cold.

Finally, to show that I'm not just spouting nonsense out of my mouth, here's a few screens of rooms I made: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qv2k88c1cvmgx63/AAB9ln4kKCnBT1VSqnqkaSG2a

Also, a cool thing I forgot to say: when you get better at making levels for DROD, you also get better at making levels for other games as well, because you get better at level design in general. And you even get better at visual design in general. I can say that most of my level design experience actually comes from making levels for Doom. I guess I can even show some disastrously horrifyingly hilarious screens of my maps as I progressed from bad to good if anyone's interested.

EDIT: Oh, also important thing I forgot to say. Your icy screenshot actually looks really good. Try to make some more stuff like it.

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[Last edited by DezzTech at 02-04-2015 01:28 PM]
02-04-2015 at 01:26 PM
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Insoluble
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icon Re: TRoSS (Three Rooms of Sundry Styles) (0)  
Hi DezzTech. What holds are those in the screenshots you linked to? They're gorgeous, especially that last one.

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02-04-2015 at 02:28 PM
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DezzTech
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They're all mine, from a hold I'm working on.

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02-04-2015 at 02:31 PM
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Jutt
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One thing from DezzTech's post I very much agree with, is that looking at other people's levels can be very educational. Therefore I have to mention [url http://forum.caravelgames.com/map.php – the gold mine for any architect looking for stylistic inspiration. This little hidden tool allows you to view the levels from any published hold, provided the architect has not chosen to hide them. If you don't mind visual spoilers, I highly recommend browsing through these images to get inspired. Make sure to check out holds by great architects such as Jacob, LarryMurk, Dischorran and Zch & Kallor to name a few. Especially that last pair showcase some gorgeous architecture on a full level scale.

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02-04-2015 at 04:06 PM
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RyTracer
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Did anyone else notice that one of those rooms is in the shape of North America? For that: kudos. Have a mod point.

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02-04-2015 at 11:35 PM
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Quewort
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My rooms getting really monotonous, you know. I just wanted to see your own pictures of rooms for one reason - I have no inspiration for creating beautiful and unrepeatable rooms. DezzTech's screenshots are really cool, but it's not enough for me :D.
And now I've realized I am too obsessed with design... Oh...
02-05-2015 at 07:18 PM
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DezzTech
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icon Re: TRoSS (Three Rooms of Sundry Styles) (+2)  
Not enough? As in you want to see more? Or as in not good enough?

In any case, I managed to remember another protip: Don't overdo it

Also, you don't necessarily have to look at drod rooms for inspiration. Sometimes screenshots of other games can provide inspiration. Or even real life photos.

Yes. Photos. Inspiration for drod rooms. Don't question it.

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02-05-2015 at 07:49 PM
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icon Re: TRoSS (Three Rooms of Sundry Styles) (0)  
Quewort wrote:
I just wanted to see your own pictures of rooms
All right :D Here's a selection of rooms from Bubble Wrap.



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[Last edited by Nuntar at 02-07-2015 01:54 AM]
02-07-2015 at 01:54 AM
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Quewort
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Nuntar wrote:
All right :D Here's a selection of rooms from Bubble Wrap.
Topic called "Three Rooms of Sundry styles", but that's okay, doesn't matter! It's even better you got four pictures! :D
02-07-2015 at 07:51 AM
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Quewort
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DezzTech wrote:
I guess I can even show some disastrously horrifyingly hilarious screens of my maps as I progressed from bad to good if anyone's interested.
Well, I'm kinda tired of building, so I wouldn't mind if you show those ones.
Maybe it'll fill me with some DET... inspiration?
12-07-2015 at 04:33 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Re: TRoSS (Three Rooms of Sundry Styles) (+1)  
Seeing these pictures of other people's rooms...
It fills you with determination.
*HP fully restored

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12-07-2015 at 06:54 PM
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Xindaris
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Bleeh, I wonder what all you good-at-visuals people think of my messes:

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Half the time I just use up the entire room on my puzzle and don't have any space for "decorations"; the other half I just sort of haphazardly throw stuff around and see what happens.

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12-07-2015 at 10:03 PM
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Dischorran
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Xindaris wrote:
Half the time I just use up the entire room on my puzzle and don't have any space for "decorations"; the other half I just sort of haphazardly throw stuff around and see what happens.
Isn't that what everyone does?

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12-08-2015 at 12:34 AM
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DezzTech
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Xindaris wrote:
Bleeh, I wonder what all you good-at-visuals people think of my messes:
I think first 2 rooms look really nice, actually. I'm pretty sure I even mentioned in that gigantic wall of text (yea, right, like I'm gonna read that) that a puzzle can be the thing that makes the room look nice. Well, I hope I did anyway.

EDIT:
Quewort wrote:
Well, I'm kinda tired of building, so I wouldn't mind if you show those ones.
Well, I guess I had to read that wall of text anyway because I couldn't figure out just what was I even talking about. Apparently Doom maps. Well, you're gonna have to wait till the end of the week to see those because they're all on an external HDD that I don't have with myself right now.

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[Last edited by DezzTech at 12-09-2015 10:24 AM]
12-09-2015 at 10:13 AM
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icon Re: TRoSS (Three Rooms of Sundry Styles) (+3)  
I'm loving this thread so far. I love the fact that the rooms posted byt Quewort, DezzTech, Nuntar, and Xindaris all have very distinctive aesthetic styles. They're all lovely, but in very different ways. The aesthetics of a room can be so important for setting the tone for a hold. I love holds that put a lot of thought into this. DezzTech, your rooms are particularly gorgeous. I'm super excited for the hold to be published!

I'm still a novice when it comes to room aesthetics myself. I'm not particularly great at making individual rooms look polished. One related thing that I've been working on a lot is the aesthetics of a whole level. The Zch and Kallor levels in TSS are particularly good at this. Not only do their rooms look great, but the aesthetic design for the entire level when seen as a whole is beautiful. Take a look here if you are unfamiliar with them http://forum.caravelgames.com/map.php So I guess this is the opposite of sundry styles since each room in these levels has a similar style and they fit together beautifully to form a larger whole. Here is my attempt to accomplish something similar (also a shameless plug for my new hold):



The intense lighting in the center square is actually mostly turned off in the game using scripting so it doesn't clash as much as it appears to in this image.

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[Last edited by Insoluble at 12-10-2015 07:39 PM]
12-10-2015 at 07:28 PM
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