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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Six Times Six (A hold with – surprise – 36 puzzles)
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Jutt
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File: Six Times Six.hold (205.2 KB)
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icon Six Times Six (+3)  
As promised I'm uploading my two year old hold to the architecture board for testing. It consists of six levels with six puzzle rooms each. I believe the difficulty level is considerably lower than my previous stuff, at least it is intended to be. Reading back some notes, apparently I made it within quite a short time span. I hope the ideas are still interesting enough, with even some new tricks for veteran players. The only major things missing are level descriptions and an ending text, which I'll take care of later.

Anyway, open beta, because I have no CaravelNet at the moment. I have already replayed the hold and fixed a few things myself, but I can always use a second opinion. Your comments on unintended solutions, difficulty, layout, etc are welcome. Hold is anyone edit and demos are available on request.

Oh, and in case you thought you were smart by looking at the super secret hold art in the editor... That image is actually the old version I was going to use if I had released it two years ago. Now I am remaking the art, which will only be available in the final version. The difference may explain what I've been doing during my absence.

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Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements

[Last edited by Jutt at 01-04-2015 12:26 PM : Attached version b05]
12-07-2014 at 11:49 PM
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Jacob
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
Well the first level's entrance and 1E are lovely.
The rest will have to wait til later.

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12-08-2014 at 01:42 AM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+1)  
In the first level 1N, the disarm token is not needed to solve the room.

In 1S I had a potion left over. In 1S1E, I had 3 potions left over (may have been intended)

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[Last edited by disoriented at 12-08-2014 04:58 AM]
12-08-2014 at 04:42 AM
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Someone Else
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+1)  
I loved Cascade, but there isn't any necessary order for the entrance or 1E, which seems a little out of place.
12-08-2014 at 05:02 AM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+1)  
Cascade:
entr&1E: can just place a single decoy to kill skipper nest
1S&1S1E: can place mimic at hot tile closest to evil eye while the door between them is open and easily kill evil eye
Carving:
1W & 1N 1W: a minor complaint: I'm forced to go through long passage twice (one time after killing all monsters), maybe some walls could be switched to green doors?
Control:
entr - US as mentioned below
1S - trivial solution: kill evil eyes with 2 of decoys, use third one to lure goblins on one of hot tiles

[Last edited by mxvladi at 12-08-2014 08:29 PM]
12-08-2014 at 06:41 AM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+1)  
Great hold indeed! I managed to beat Cascade and Repeat but after that it became quite hard, at least for me.

Cascade:
I also didn't use disarm token in 1N1E, the other rooms all have US already mentioned.

Repeat:
I don't think there are US here, lovely and fun level and even though the concept is rather known, there are still cool and fun linchpin to find here, 3N and 4N are my favourites.

Carving:
Not my type of level but in entrance and 1N a vision token might be useful.

Control:
Entrance: I simply use the decoy to kill the EE and "push" a goblin into the hot tile.
All other rooms seems pretty solid though not so easy.

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12-08-2014 at 11:25 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+1)  
Thanks for the great response so far. There's plenty of details I overlooked. All kinds of fixes have been made, see the first post for the latest version.

disoriented wrote:
In the first level 1N, the disarm token is not needed to solve the room.
That is indeed possible, the token is only there to mirror the room to the east. It may additionally act as a small red herring.

disoriented wrote:
In 1S I had a potion left over. In 1S1E, I had 3 potions left over (may have been intended)
Using only 7 potions in 1S is also fine, as again here I thought it would mirror 1S1E where all 8 should be necessary. But now you have completely mystified me saying you found a 5 mimic solution... Can you elaborate?

Someone Else wrote:
I loved Cascade, but there isn't any necessary order for the entrance or 1E, which seems a little out of place.
If you mean placement order for the decoys, I'm afraid I can't help that. Tar cutting is processed for all swords simultaneously each turn, so there is no way to adapt the puzzle to incorporate placement order. Still I feel the idea sticks close enough to the theme to be relevant.

mxvladi wrote:
Cascade:
entr&1E: can just place a single decoy to kill skipper nest
1S&1S1E: can place mimic at hot tile closest to evil eye while the door between them is open and easily kill evil eye
Control:
entr - US as mentioned below
1S - trivial solution: kill evil eyes with 2 of decoys, use third one to lure goblins on one of hot tiles
Ah, excellent finds, a few additional force arrows will do the trick. And to be on the safe side, I also added some in Cascade:1N and 1N1E.

Red-XIII wrote:
Carving:
Not my type of level but in entrance and 1N a vision token might be useful.
I have no problem with a vision token. It is a shame that you will only see its full effect once you open the doors.

Red-XIII wrote:
Control:
Entrance: I simply use the decoy to kill the EE and "push" a goblin into the hot tile.
All other rooms seems pretty solid though not so easy.
Ah, another decoy trick I missed. I've fixed it by adding a broken wall.

____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
12-08-2014 at 08:28 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+2)  
All done. A few more (probably) USes:

Flight:
1S 1E - used decoy to press easternmost pressure plate instead of waiting for gel/tar to do it & cleaned whatever was left. Also, I can use decoy to blow up bombs which probably will also lead to some unintended solution.
1W -
Click here to view the secret text

1S -
Click here to view the secret text

12-08-2014 at 11:02 PM
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disoriented
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disoriented wrote:
In 1S I had a potion left over. In 1S1E, I had 3 potions left over (may have been intended)
Using only 7 potions in 1S is also fine, as again here I thought it would mirror 1S1E where all 8 should be necessary. But now you have completely mystified me saying you found a 5 mimic solution... Can you elaborate?

I thought the intended solution was to put mimics at the monsters' starting locations since this was the only room on the level without arrows at those spots.

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12-08-2014 at 11:36 PM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+1)  
mxvladi wrote:
All done. A few more (probably) USes:

Flight:
1S 1E - used decoy to press easternmost pressure plate instead of waiting for gel/tar to do it & cleaned whatever was left. Also, I can use decoy to blow up bombs which probably will also lead to some unintended solution.
1W -
Click here to view the secret text

1S -
Click here to view the secret text

1S1E: Ooh, forgot that room also had mimics :/. Lots of stuff to be fixed here. Placing mimics directly on the rightmost pressure plate now locks you into the small box. Also I replaced the bombs with orbs that lock the door on the entrance. Yet another thing I noticed is that you could place the decoys with their swords protecting pressure plates, so I'm adding some trap doors as well.

1W: I thought I had eradicated that solution, but clearly I did not. I'll try a different trick that hopefully does force the wraithwing to be useful.

1S:
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
12-08-2014 at 11:49 PM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+1)  
disoriented wrote:
I thought the intended solution was to put mimics at the monsters' starting locations since this was the only room on the level without arrows at those spots.
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
12-08-2014 at 11:58 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
Jutt wrote:
Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

12-09-2014 at 12:36 AM
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disoriented
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Jutt wrote:
disoriented wrote:
I thought the intended solution was to put mimics at the monsters' starting locations since this was the only room on the level without arrows at those spots.
Click here to view the secret text

I just used one mimic to kill the skippers and the other four to activate the doors to kill the eye. If you want a demo I can post when I get home.

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12-09-2014 at 12:54 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
New version is up.

mxvladi wrote:
Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text


disoriented wrote:
I just used one mimic to kill the skippers and the other four to activate the doors to kill the eye. If you want a demo I can post when I get home.
If you could do so, please.

____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
12-09-2014 at 08:00 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+1)  
Cascade 1S 1E: disoriented means that you can put mimics on starting positions of roaches...

Flight:
1S 1E -> I can place decoy on tar/gel change token
1W -> hmm, now I can just wait for 2 spawn cycles and left tar blob starts spawning tar babies all by itself

Jutt wrote:
Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

12-10-2014 at 01:55 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
Cascade 1S 1E: Ah, now I get it. Silly, I thought I had put force arrows there just like the other rooms. Fixed it.

Flight
1S 1E: Another trapdoor then.
1W: And another force arrow.
1S: I am not sure if I should leave the room as it is. Your solution requires to do that dance with the roach and wraithwing 8 times or so, which is far less efficient than the intended solution. But I don't really want players to think that the tedious alternative is the intended solution either.

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Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
12-10-2014 at 01:39 PM
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blorx1
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File: Six Times Six Blorx Demos.demo (18.3 KB)
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+3)  
I've got a set of demos. I did something a bit different in Flight 1S but didn't do either mxvladi's trick or yours. It seems like you might have made some changes but haven't uploaded a new version, so Flight 1W might be fixed for you.

It was quite fun to play through, generally no rooms that I disliked.

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12-13-2014 at 06:21 PM
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Jutt
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Thank you for your demos, blorx, they were very helpful verifying the intended solutions. Some comments on your solutions:

Control: 1E
You used a bit more efficient trick getting to the eye while the goblin passes over the pp. I placed an arrow to prevent this, hopefully forcing you to put the goblin in a stable position on the pp.

Guidance: Entrance
You are doing it the hard way, though the concept of getting past the aumtlich is the same. The intended solution would be
Click here to view the secret text

Hoping to fix Flight:1S once and for all, I got creative with doors, improving the symmetry of the room in the process. Let's see if you still manage to break it. Newest version uploaded, which is now a TSS hold instead of a GatEB hold. I don't suppose anyone would notice though.

[Edit] And another quick update to 1S.

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Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements

[Last edited by Jutt at 12-15-2014 10:36 PM]
12-15-2014 at 09:39 PM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
In Flight 1W there doesn't seem to be a purpose for the WW. The babies can spawn at 15,13 and be led to the southwest.

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12-17-2014 at 06:31 PM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
I think you have not yet downloaded the latest version, because that issue has already been fixed.

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Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
12-17-2014 at 08:13 PM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
I'm sorry.

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12-18-2014 at 03:14 AM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
What is the intended solution for 1S1E now? If mimics can no longer guard plates with swords... what can they accomplish?

Wait, I think I know...
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by disoriented at 12-18-2014 04:43 AM]
12-18-2014 at 03:50 AM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
How about Flight 1S...
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by disoriented at 12-21-2014 12:17 AM]
12-21-2014 at 12:09 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
Click here to view the secret text


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Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
12-21-2014 at 03:51 PM
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disoriented
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
Thanks, that was what I needed.

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12-21-2014 at 09:39 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
To confirm - Flight 1W and 1S work as intended now

in Flight 1S 1E I don't need to use WWings in any way, can just kill them with fegundos and still solve the room. Though there're no trivial solutions now, at least.
01-01-2015 at 01:24 PM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
I found the unintended solution where you use the decoys to protect two of the pressure plates, and once the mother is dead, you stand on the exit door while using the fegundos to kill any tar babies that were spawned. Is that what you did?

I can hopefully fix it with an extra green door preventing you to reach the exit before clearing the room.

____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
01-02-2015 at 04:26 PM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+1)  
what I did is placing decoys and fegundos like this:
Click here to view the secret text


I don't need to stand near exit when killing tar babies.
01-04-2015 at 07:27 AM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Six Times Six (0)  
I cannot get your exact configuration to work, but I did find a similar setup. I'm filling in the entire central area with trap doors, which should at least prevent the decoys from interfering with tar growth directly. However, I see no way to prevent players from putting the fegundos someplace other than over the pressure plates. But since any alternatives will be almost certainly more work, I don't really mind leaving them in.

Attached is now the fixed version of the hold, which also includes level entrance and ending texts.


Also a quick inquiry: is anyone still playing through the hold and wants to give feedback? So far I've added mxvladi, disoriented, Red-XIII and blorx1 to the list of testers in the credits. It looks like the finial issues are being resolved, so the beta may come to an end soon. Before I send the hold to the HA's, I want to iron out a few issues with the custom room styles in the hold—I'm still waiting on a response from Schik on that one.

____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements

[Last edited by Jutt at 01-04-2015 12:18 PM]
01-04-2015 at 12:18 PM
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Jutt
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icon Re: Six Times Six (+1)  
Since it's not clear when the style updates will be available on CaravelNet, I'm going to move forward with publishing this hold and send it to the HA's. As far as I can tell everything has been tested thoroughly. Thanks to all of you once more for your invaluable help!

____________________________
Holds: An Architects Audition, Artful Architecture, Salamander, Elusive Exhibitions, Leftover Levels, Six Times Six
Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements
02-18-2015 at 08:39 PM
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