Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
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File: Trek to No Air.hold (5 MB)
Downloaded 45 times.
License: Public Domain

I was working on this and another hold (Bog Swamp) a year or two ago, and just as I began to feel they might be ready to submit for testing and suggestions, my computer completely died on me. I finally got it up and running again a few months back and I recently found them again. I figured I'd try adding a few of the new elements from The Second Sky, but there isn't much of that in here just yet.

Please enjoy and let me know where I can improve it.

Oh, I should also point out that the first level of this hold ("Whipper Wind") is designed to take advantage of the Jungle theme I was working on and posted here. It doesn't require it, but if you have it installed in your version of DROD, you can see exactly how I'd intended the level to look.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

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[Last edited by Garlonuss at 06-19-2015 07:50 AM]

azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
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Looks good so far, except for one thing,

Generally, on Architecture holds, they are W.I.P.s, so they are marked "Anyone Edit" for testers' convenience. I suggest you please do the same.

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Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
IP: Logged

You're right. You're right. Sorry, it's been years since I'd done this and I forgot to check that.

I've replaced the attachment at the beginning and added just a bit of additional info on the hold.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

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[Last edited by Garlonuss at 07-04-2014 03:29 PM]

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
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I've uploaded a newer version of the hold. None of the puzzles were changed, I'm just adding some of the newer image manipulation effects at strategic places.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

abe10
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 03-14-2014
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Is level1 1N1W possible??? The only way to free the western seep is by trapping yourself in the SW corner. This is true regardless of if you kill the brain before you enter the maze or not. I acknowledge that this is not the right thread, but this hold does not have a page in the proper thread.

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My avatar is a cool gif I found on the Kongregate forums.

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[Last edited by abe10 at 04-18-2015 11:11 PM]

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
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No it is not impossible. In my solution, that's the first seep I release. After stepping on that plate, you simply need to find somewhere to go to lure him away from the bottleneck long enough for you to get out.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

abe10
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 03-14-2014
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"Before or after you kill the brain??"


EDIT:nvm. the trick is to wait.

____________________________
My avatar is a cool gif I found on the Kongregate forums.

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[Last edited by abe10 at 04-19-2015 06:32 PM]

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
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In playtesting the hold I recently found a couple things that needed fixing and I've added new text and scripting. I've posted the newer version at the beginning of this thread. Overall the hold's largely the same. Just a couple of tweaks.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

---

[Last edited by Garlonuss at 04-26-2015 01:19 AM]

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3624
Registered: 10-06-2005
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Nice work! I'm playing through the first level (Whipper-Wind) right now. I think it looks a little "busy" with the large number of custom obstacles, but the rooms have been fairly reasonable once I've managed to parse them and figure out just what each part of the room is for.

2N1E in particular is a fine example of golem manipulation, and using the room geometry to the utmost.

Ironically, 3N would probably be much harder if you had to play through it all in one pass, since it would be more important to keep the total number of waterskippers under control using the shallow water. As it is now, killing the nests from the NE entrance isn't that tough.

1N is quite nice, although I don't know why you used secret walls when crumbly walls would have worked just as well and been more visible. I'm also not really sure what the Gentryii is supposed to do, since he didn't really constrain me that much when I was remote-manipulating the east golem and goblin to their deaths.

I haven't solved 1N1E yet, but I'll probably have something to say about it when I do.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 05-10-2015 02:34 AM]

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
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Thanks. I agree that this first level can appear too, as you say, "busy". I don't remember exactly why I decided to lay it out that way. Later levels don't have the same problem, though.

Thanks regarding 2N1E. And I had considered forcing a one pass solution for 3N, but I decided that for a first level I'd go a little easier. Except that I think 1N1E may be a bit harder than I meant for a first level. I'll tell you right now that how you play that room influences how hard another room is. (1N2E if you need to know.) That's why I have the brain give that message, urging you to use as few potions as possible.

The Gentryii in 1N isn't really meant to do anything. All it ends up doing is limiting you to exiting to the south or east after finishing the room. I just put it in for flavor. And as a bit of a tease, having it guard a single square of secret wall that goes nowhere, to tempt people to try to get past it to find a secret.

I'm not exactly sure why I didn't use crumbly walls, though. I thought about that on my last play testing. I've already changed the endpoints to crumbly walls and any future releases will have those in place.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3624
Registered: 10-06-2005
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Okay, after some time I managed to come back to this hold.

Solving Whipper Wind 1N1E without using any of the decoy potions wasn't too much trouble, as soon as I was able to figure out a good route for taking down the trapdoors.

The goblin distraction puzzle was a good way of revisiting the level, and it wasn't too tricky to keep the scripted character on task - I didn't feel like I had to guess the solution from nothing; instead it gave purpose to those mysterious pressure plates I saw earlier.

Marsh Maze 1N can be broken by just maneuvering carefully around the Aumtlich and killing him with Beethro (rather than freezing him with a mirror), so that means you can just place the mimic on the checkpoint rather than inside the "face northwest" mechanism.

EDIT: You can also just stand on the first trapdoor in Marsh Maze 1S1W and just rotate to stab the three seep, and only then disarm yourself.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 05-18-2015 09:46 PM]

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
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Thanks for the feedback. See my comments below.

I'm curious to see a demo of what you did on Whipper Wind 1N1E

I'm glad you liked the goblin distraction. I figured I'd make it a simple thing but revisiting is frequently a fun twist.

On Marsh Maze 1N, I never intended you to freeze the Aumtlich, but I've now made a small tweak that should make it so that you can't solve the room by placing the mimic on the checkpoint anymore.

And you're right about Marsh Maze 1S1W. That was apparently a remnant of an older version of that room. I made a slight change to the room and didn't adjust that part accordingly.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3624
Registered: 10-06-2005
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File: TtNA Whipper-Wind 1N1E Victory.demo (12 KB)
Downloaded 40 times.
License: Public Domain

Sure, here's my demo for Whipper Wind 1N1E. I don't think this is much harder than doing the room normally, since all the trapdoors have to get dropped one way or another.

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Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
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Ah. I see. Well, that's a completely unintended solution. I've made up a version where that is no longer possible. If you'd like, try it out and see if it's too hard for a first level. My intent is to force at least one potion use, but I don't want to make it too hard.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3624
Registered: 10-06-2005
IP: Logged

File: TtNA Whipper-Wind 1N1E Victory.demo (11.8 KB)
Downloaded 39 times.
License: Public Domain

Okay, here's a demo for the fixed version of Whipper Wind 1N1E. As you can see, it's 95% the same, except that I use one decoy potion to distract the bottom group and kill both east groups on one handy hot tile passage that Beethro can vertically align himself with.

It's obviously a bit hard for me to tell now, but I think it's still reasonable to suss out a good strategy for the room, and extra decoys can always be placed on the hot tiles to just directly stab some roaches.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
IP: Logged

That's fine. I'm not trying to force a high number of potion uses. Just creative and effective ones. They're there if people want to use more of them. They're just encouraged to be sparing. I'm actually happy that there's an easier solution than the approach I'd originally intended, because, after letting it sit for a while then trying it out myself, I realized it wasn't as intuitive as I'd like for a first level room.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

---

[Last edited by Garlonuss at 05-20-2015 06:36 AM]

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3624
Registered: 10-06-2005
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Alright, after playing through this hold some more I finished Marsh Maze, and have done most of The Vast; just cleaning up a few more rooms now. I'll probably post a big old pack of demos once I'm done.

Just to confirm, there's no special dialogue or reward if you can somehow manage to solve The Vast 1S1E with one of the soldiers still alive, right? That seems nearly impossible, and yet I still want to keep trying.

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Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

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I don't believe it's possible so I didn't even consider anything like that. But just in case, I might consider adding a little dialog in case anyone figures out a way.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
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Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3624
Registered: 10-06-2005
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File: Trek to No Air Chaco.demo (62.5 KB)
Downloaded 43 times.
License: Public Domain

Well, I'm nearly done with this hold - just have Whipper-Wind 1W to solve, which is a bit complicated-looking.

There are a lot of rooms, so I'll try to just comment on the most noteworthy ones. See also the attached demos for almost all the rooms in the hold, which may be of use:

- The Vast 2E could probably use a few more checkpoints, but I liked that room a lot for how careful you have to be with space efficiency.

- The Vast 2N1W has the same problem I noted earlier where you can just step on the pressure plate to let the seep out, kill them with your sword, then disarm and enter the room. It's still a good room even when done intentionally (although it could probably use another checkpoint in the north area).

- The Vast 3S felt a little easy for a secret room; you can basically just walk in and kill everything.

- I'd appreciate a checkpoint in Conduit 2 The Entrance's south passageway (with the trapdoors) so it's easy to restore to a "done" state (particularly when hunting for the secret room).

- It took me a while to realize that in Conduit 3 2N1E there's a little notch where you can sneak the mirrors onto the platform diagonally. I'm not really sure whether that needs to be changed (with more notches or dry shoreline), but I thought I'd mention it.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):

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[Last edited by Chaco at 06-18-2015 06:35 PM]

Garlonuss
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 275
Registered: 06-28-2004
IP: Logged

Thanks for the feedback. Responses below.

- The Vast 2E could probably use a few more checkpoints, but I liked that room a lot for how careful you have to be with space efficiency.
Done.


- The Vast 2N1W has the same problem I noted earlier where you can just step on the pressure plate to let the seep out, kill them with your sword, then disarm and enter the room. It's still a good room even when done intentionally (although it could probably use another checkpoint in the north area).
This has been fixed to where that should no longer be an option.


- The Vast 3S felt a little easy for a secret room; you can basically just walk in and kill everything.
I agree with this. I'm still trying to think of what to do with that room.


- I'd appreciate a checkpoint in Conduit 2 The Entrance's south passageway (with the trapdoors) so it's easy to restore to a "done" state (particularly when hunting for the secret room).
Done.


- It took me a while to realize that in Conduit 3 2N1E there's a little notch where you can sneak the mirrors onto the platform diagonally. I'm not really sure whether that needs to be changed (with more notches or dry shoreline), but I thought I'd mention it.
Yeah, that was intended to be non-obvious. I can change it to be more blatant if you think I should, but I've left it alone for now.

____________________________
Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.

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[Last edited by Garlonuss at 06-19-2015 07:49 AM]