Announcement: Please read the Rules Topic for some general rules and etiquette before using the Hints and Solutions system.


Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Hints and Solutions : The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North
Page 1 of 2
2
New Topic Post Reply
Poster Message
bomber50
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 872
Registered: 09-18-2006
IP: Logged
icon The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
Third time through this room, entering from the southeast with the staff. Now what?
06-24-2014 at 08:02 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3515
Registered: 10-01-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (+1)  
You need to exit west now

____________________________
New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:
Click here to view the secret text

06-24-2014 at 08:23 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
bomber50
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 872
Registered: 09-18-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
I thought that might be it. But I have no idea how to do this. It seems like I need to do at least 3 different things, which have to be done by different clones.
06-24-2014 at 08:40 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3515
Registered: 10-01-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (+1)  
There are other, less friendly, people who can help you.

____________________________
New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:
Click here to view the secret text

06-24-2014 at 08:48 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
bomber50
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 872
Registered: 09-18-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
Then would one of them like to help me here? :) I'm still stuck. I have no idea how to get through the third pass.
06-24-2014 at 07:02 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3697
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (+1)  
Jacob means there are less friendly people in the room who can help you. Specifically
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
50th Skywatcher
06-24-2014 at 07:18 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 4490
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
A mod-down on giving a room hint? That's low...

You just discourage people from giving hints when you do that.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.
06-24-2014 at 07:19 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
bomber50
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 872
Registered: 09-18-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
I've thought about that, but I can't see the execution.
06-24-2014 at 07:20 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
bomber50
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 872
Registered: 09-18-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
quote:
mrimer wrote:
A mod-down on giving a room hint? That's low...

You just discourage people from giving hints when you do that.
\

It was a misunderstanding, I now see, and I apologize to Jacob.
06-24-2014 at 07:20 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3697
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (+1)  
quote:
bomber50 wrote:
I've thought about that, but I can't see the execution.

This room requires a mechanic that isn't required in the non-optional rooms elsewhere (though it is in AL, if you've looked at that). If a temporal clone "records" a valid move that has become invalid when it tries to replay it, it doesn't skip the move but keeps trying until it succeeds, then continues with its next recorded move and so on.

More pointers towards the solution:
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
50th Skywatcher
06-24-2014 at 09:23 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3023
Registered: 06-11-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (+1)  
quote:
Nuntar wrote:
This room requires a mechanic that isn't required in the non-optional rooms elsewhere (though it is in AL, if you've looked at that). If a temporal clone "records" a valid move that has become invalid when it tries to replay it, it doesn't skip the move but keeps trying until it succeeds, then continues with its next recorded move and so on.
Let's be fair: it doesn't *require* that mechanic... that mechanic just makes the solution more lenient. You could record the clone waiting a few turns before every move and never have the clone ever try to reattempt a move. It's just easier without that.

EDIT: It *does* require another mechanic though, but that's demonstrated very early with Temporal Tokens....

[Last edited by TFMurphy at 06-24-2014 09:41 PM]
06-24-2014 at 09:30 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
bomber50
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 872
Registered: 09-18-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
Devilishly clever. Solved. (For now!)

[Last edited by bomber50 at 06-24-2014 10:21 PM]
06-24-2014 at 10:20 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
lordatog
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 51
Registered: 04-30-2009
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
Hmm. I considered that, and rejected it
Click here to view the secret text

07-06-2014 at 01:39 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
tempestadept
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 140
Registered: 12-23-2010
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (+2)  
I've done this in a totally different way.
Click here to view the secret text

07-09-2014 at 08:19 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
vinheim
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 301
Registered: 05-31-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
quote:
lordatog wrote:
Hmm. I considered that, and rejected it
Click here to view the secret text



It might have to do with how you setup the platform near the aumtlich, but it is indeed possible to have the aumtlich changing targets between you and your clone. I believe that is the intended solution, but the other solution is also easy to pull off in any case
07-09-2014 at 08:24 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Godot23
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 114
Registered: 02-28-2013
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
Ok. I'm so close to the end and this room has been the only thing standing in between me and the finale. Would someone be willing to post a demo?

____________________________
Roses are red
Violets are red
Everything is red
My house is on fire
07-31-2014 at 02:14 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
vinheim
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 301
Registered: 05-31-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (+1)  
From which entrance do you need help from?
07-31-2014 at 05:20 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Godot23
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 114
Registered: 02-28-2013
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
quote:
vinheim wrote:
From which entrance do you need help from?

Sorry. I'm in for the third time when I have to exit to the west

____________________________
Roses are red
Violets are red
Everything is red
My house is on fire
07-31-2014 at 03:23 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
robin
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 792
Registered: 09-01-2004
IP: Logged

File: TSS King Dugans Dungeon First Level 2N 3rd go.demo (11.4 KB)
Downloaded 153 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (+3)  
Here you go,

____________________________
Click here to view the secret text

08-01-2014 at 12:45 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
Godot23
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 114
Registered: 02-28-2013
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
quote:
robin wrote:
Here you go,

Thanksies!

____________________________
Roses are red
Violets are red
Everything is red
My house is on fire
08-01-2014 at 01:18 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
JLE
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 35
Registered: 09-10-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
Hints for people on the first pass through (with the sword):

Click here to view the secret text

06-06-2020 at 03:44 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
JLE
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 35
Registered: 09-10-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
And for the second:

Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by JLE at 06-06-2020 04:31 AM]
06-06-2020 at 04:23 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
JLE
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 35
Registered: 09-10-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
But, I don't understand how to do the third pass through with the big stick. I know it's important that
Click here to view the secret text
but I can't work out how to tag the NW orb - even though there is no green door protecting the western exit, so not all the enemies have to be killed.

My problem being, as soon as the single-use pressure plate is touched, no matter whether by an eye or by any Beethro, the southwestern door is permanently closed, preventing Beethro from passing it to the western exit.

In any case, all the force arrows mean that whoever goes up the NW passage does not get out.

Which in turn means that it must be the *first* Beethro - with no clone to help him - that goes up the NW passage, because the second must get beyond the door before it is closed, and sit there while the first does his thing.

So how does Beethro 1 (after activating the timer, but with no other Beethro present) get up the passage? The previous hints are just not strong enough for me to understand what moves he is supposed to make, with or without the presence of his temporal clone (the latter being the one who exits the room).

[Last edited by JLE at 06-06-2020 05:18 AM]
06-06-2020 at 05:05 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1371
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
Click here to view the secret text

06-06-2020 at 05:13 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
JLE
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 35
Registered: 09-10-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
quote:
Dragon Fogel wrote:
Click here to view the secret text



Nope, that doesn't work, because what I did there was
Click here to view the secret text
That doesn't help here.

So. How does Beethro 1 pass through the first yellow door, instead of bumping against it?

And then the second, since this is the first instance of Beethro and there is no second Beethro to bring the aumtlich back onto the pressure plate again?

And then the third?

As far as I know, recording a bump against a closed door results in a bump, it results in NOT moving into that space even if that space is vacant. (Confirmed by attempting to do just that. Recorded Beethro 1 did NOT move into the space of the now-open second yellow door even though the clone-recording suggested that that would be his next move: he stayed just where he was.)

So what must the first Beethro (with no second Beethro to assist him) actually do, that results in him passing through the arrows and striking the orb? Please be more specific.

[EDIT] I see two potential solutions earlier in the thread, but I cannot see how either of them work.

One suggests pushing an eye up the corridor, instead of a Beethro: but that suggests that the final thing to be hit is a pressure plate (which an eye could be attracted on to), not an orb (which an eye cannot interact with). Is this a thing that has been changed since earlier versions?

Another thing says "when a clone records a valid move that becomes invalid, it keeps trying to do it till it succeeds". But it seems that what we are trying to do here is the reverse: record an invalid move (on to a closed door) that becomes somehow valid (by using the second Beethro to make the aumtlich move to open the door for the clone). This does not work, as I tried above.

[Last edited by JLE at 06-06-2020 05:50 AM]
06-06-2020 at 05:22 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
averagemoe
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 273
Registered: 03-22-2012
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
So don't bump against the door. A temporal clone doesn't care what square it's on, it just tries to make the same moves you did like a delayed mimic.

____________________________
Black Lives Matter. And I don't mean that exclusively. Lives of all colors matter.
06-06-2020 at 05:49 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
JLE
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 35
Registered: 09-10-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
As I explained, that instruction does not make sense. PLEASE GIVE MORE DETAIL! And, please, without referring to "what you did in other rooms" that were long ago.

[Last edited by JLE at 06-06-2020 05:55 AM]
06-06-2020 at 05:51 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
averagemoe
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 273
Registered: 03-22-2012
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
You're trying to actually go through the doors instead of letting your past self do it for you. You need to get your temporal clone to stand in a different place than you were when you recorded it's moves.

____________________________
Black Lives Matter. And I don't mean that exclusively. Lives of all colors matter.
06-06-2020 at 06:00 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1371
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
Sorry, I got two similar levels mixed up in my previous advice.

Click here to view the secret text

06-06-2020 at 06:04 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
JLE
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 35
Registered: 09-10-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North (0)  
When I said more detail, that includes HOW do you make your temporal clone "stand in a different place than when you recorded its moves"?

Let us assume the following:

(1) I am standing in the SW area, behind the door that will be closed whe I step on the northern pressure plate. I have not yet created a temporal clone.

(2) The aumtlich is currently on the pressure plate. It can move one square northwards to step off the pressure plate, if attracted there (the rest of the floating platform is further east, and the aumtlich will never step on that while both Beethros remain to the west of it.)

How do I "record a set of moves" that work?

[Last edited by JLE at 06-06-2020 06:46 AM]
06-06-2020 at 06:08 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores Quote Reply
Page 1 of 2
2
New Topic Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Hints and Solutions : The Second Sky : King Dugan's Dungeon: First Level : 2 North
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.