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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Hints and Solutions : Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance
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Banjooie
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icon Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
I'm just making this thread.

I don't need to do anything else.
04-04-2012 at 04:03 AM
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Garlonuss
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
Yes, well, I wouldn't be of much help to you in any case. It just so happens that the Spider Cave actually is the absolute only thing I have left to do, and it's driving me insane.
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Garlonuss at 04-05-2012 07:37 AM]
04-05-2012 at 07:37 AM
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Keiya
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
You can check explored percentages per level on the restore screen. That might help.

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04-05-2012 at 09:10 AM
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Obob
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+3)  
For anybody stuck trying to find this, here are a couple hints, in increasing order of specificity:

Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Obob at 04-05-2012 12:01 PM]
04-05-2012 at 11:58 AM
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Jacob
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
Obob wrote:
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text


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My Holds and Levels:
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[Last edited by Jacob at 04-05-2012 02:14 PM]
04-05-2012 at 01:29 PM
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Garlonuss
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
Yeah, you see, the frustrating part is that the only level that isn't showing me a 100% explore is Akandia, and that's at 97% which has to be everything except the last screen that I'm trying to find anyway.

You see why I'm getting frustrated? I've been in every stinking room possible and for some reason I still can't find the last scroll! :angry

I must be doing something wrong. I guess I just have to keep looking around until I figure out where it is that I'm not seeing what should be patently obvious.

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Refrigerator.
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04-05-2012 at 05:22 PM
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Garlonuss
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
Well, I hate to sound like I cheated, but with the tips from Obob, turns out that was enough to get me there even with one letter missing.

Got there. Beat it. Game's done.

Yaaay!

I just wish I could figure out where that last scroll is.

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Refrigerator.
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04-05-2012 at 06:27 PM
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Garlonuss
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
Okay, so robin helped me out.
I was beginning to believe that the thirteenth scroll was about as real as the cake was.

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Haikus are easy.
Sometimes they don't make much sense.
Refrigerator.
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04-05-2012 at 07:22 PM
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Obob
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
Jacob wrote:
Obob wrote:
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

04-05-2012 at 07:38 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
I always find it difficult to understand people when they say "in this day and age" or "It's expected".

I mean, in this day and age, it's expected that games should be finishable in 10 hours, is a 3D FPS, costs 60 dollars and completely hand-holded until the end.

I'm rather more interested in what you expect. And secondly, whether a game like DROD should do precisely what you expect, nothing more or less.

(If it sounds aggresively, then I apologize in advance. I've tried to beta test the game, but sometimes I need some help to convince the devs. If you have any suggestions to help me I'd like to hear.)

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[Last edited by Tim at 04-05-2012 10:43 PM]
04-05-2012 at 10:41 PM
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Keiya
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
Quick tip for everyone: In I believe 4.0.1.110, an extra hint was added
Click here to view the secret text
. You'll need to do a full reinstall to get the hold update. (You probably should anyway, it fixes an issue that caused a bunch of demos for one of the place of whims levels to be invalidated)

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04-06-2012 at 12:12 AM
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Obob
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+3)  
NOTE: Some very minor spoilers follow. If you've read the thread this far though, there's nothing you don't already know.

As you of course realize, you're vastly and inappropriately generalizing what I was saying. The RPG market still exists, even if it is much less popular than it used to be. Your description of a formulaic Half-Life clone is of course spot on for one very popular genre of game, but this is not at all what people expect out of every game--gaming as an art form is far more diverse than this oversimplification, which is no doubt part of the reason why we all enjoy gaming so much.

Documentation for most games has become pretty terrible over the past several years, and with the increased prevalence of digital downloads, in-game tutorials, and in-game key-binding charts (all of which DROD 4 has), it is increasingly rare for somebody to even look at the documentation. I may have read pieces of the documentation for DROD 1, which was introduced before some of these features became expected, as DROD 1 expects you to figure out things for yourself much more than the current games. Having played all 4 main games now, I would never look at the documentation without being told to do so, any more than I would play the tutorial before just diving into the game.

When a riddle is posed in game, I think it is reasonable to expect (and I do expect) that the necessary hints to solve it also exist in game. Telling someone to read the help files smacks of breaking the 4th wall when there are good ways of implementing the entire riddle in game. However, NOT telling someone to read the help files when that is in fact where they must go is just frustrating in my opinion, when people may not even think to look there as they have previously had no reason to consult the documentation.

Back in the 90's, I recall several games required you to consult the manual to solve necessary in-game puzzles. I remember one very complicated puzzle from Space Quest 6 required solving a logic puzzle where all the clues to the puzzle where contained in the manual. The reason for this was primarily one of piracy prevention--before the internet was commonplace, it was reasonably difficult obtain a solution to the puzzle if you didn't have the physical manual.

Was this a good implementation, however? I'll speak just for myself: I hated it. There were many times when I would want to play the game and had the CD readily available, but would have to search for the manual for hours to be able to get past that puzzle. Of course these days it would provide basically zero piracy protection.

Furthermore, from an artistic standpoint, it breaks the flow of the game. My character shouldn't need information that is unavailable to him as a character, and only available to me outside the game world.

From a storytelling standpoint, why is it that I as the human player need to learn the lore of the world in order to crack a puzzle? Surely my character Gunthro is the one that needs to learn how to solve the puzzle, and I as a person am along for the ride with Gunthro. But then Gunthro should be able to explore the world and consult with the relevant scrolls and/or people to solve the puzzle.

In my mind there is a big difference between a help file that incidentally contains some necessary information for puzzles and a "codex"-type system (see the Mass Effect games) where lore that you have discovered in game is saved to be perused (or not) at your leisure. Such snippets of lore stay within the game universe and are information available to your character, who is the real entity tasked with solving the puzzles.

A "codex" like system would also be much appreciated in DROD 4, as it is only after you have likely already discovered half the scrolls that you discover you need to remember their contents. Backtracking to recollect them (which often can only be done using the clunky Restore system, as several are inaccessible after the monsters in the rooms are dead) is both tedious and breaks the flow of the game. I eventually ended up print-screening all the scrolls and pasting them into MS Paint to make sure I wasn't getting duplicates. Needless to say, this process was one of the least enjoyable parts of the entire game.

(It's right up there with hunting for breakable, often nearly indistinguishable wall segments, which IMO is something the series should have done away with a long time ago--just make the breakable blocks more visible. There are already two different arts for breakable blocks, one easy to distinguish and one difficult to distinguish. What do the blocks that are harder to find add to the game when you're poring over the map searching for hidden rooms?)

An in-game notebook system of some sort that keeps track of collected scrolls and any other lore Gunthro learns would be a welcome addition. This could also help to better develop some of the mythology of the series, for people who care about that sort of thing. Alternately, similarly useful would be a library in town that contains the contents of the lore sections of the help file. The scrolls Gunthro has discovered along the way could also be placed there.

[Last edited by Obob at 04-06-2012 12:44 AM]
04-06-2012 at 12:35 AM
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bwross
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+2)  
Keiya wrote:
Quick tip for everyone: In I believe 4.0.1.110, an extra hint was added
Click here to view the secret text
.

Given that that clue is now in the game, maybe the duplicate of it should be edited out of this thread?

Also: Can we have the walls of text put into secret boxes to get them out of the way?

For those looking for a "last scroll":
Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by bwross at 04-06-2012 01:03 AM]
04-06-2012 at 12:55 AM
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Tim
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
Obob wrote:
NOTE: Some very minor spoilers follow. If you've read the thread this far though, there's nothing you don't already know.
I wanted to thank you in advance for replying so extensively to my question.

I'll read and reply to this later (reading and writing is slow for me even if it doesn't like it), but in the meantime a quick thanks for your quick response. :)


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04-06-2012 at 08:28 AM
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RabidChild
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
This is kind of a moot point since I already found the Spider Cave, but it's driving me crazy nonetheless. I've searched everywhere and I've only been able to find twelve scrolls. Can anyone help me out with the thirteenth?
04-07-2012 at 08:52 PM
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Jacob
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
I've posted a clue regarding this elsewhere on the forum

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New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:
Click here to view the secret text

04-07-2012 at 09:27 PM
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bwross
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
RabidChild wrote:
This is kind of a moot point since I already found the Spider Cave, but it's driving me crazy nonetheless. I've searched everywhere and I've only been able to find twelve scrolls. Can anyone help me out with the thirteenth?

See my post above. I believe that other than the special ones in the last two hints, the rest are all like hint #2. I don't think it would be right to just list the exact rooms here, but those hints limit the search to the point where it shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes of flipping through restore screens.

[Last edited by bwross at 04-07-2012 09:29 PM]
04-07-2012 at 09:28 PM
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bwross
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
[Post Deleted] bodkin wrote:
Click here to view the secret text


Click here to view the secret text


Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by bwross at 04-08-2012 01:01 AM]
04-08-2012 at 01:01 AM
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bodkin
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
I still can't find anything. Could you help again?






[Last edited by bodkin at 04-08-2012 02:20 AM]
04-08-2012 at 02:00 AM
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bwross
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+2)  
Click here to view the secret text


04-08-2012 at 02:17 AM
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TFMurphy
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+2)  
There is a timeframe when it must be found.

Click here to view the secret text

04-08-2012 at 02:23 AM
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bodkin
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
You have shown me what I'm doing wrong.
Click here to view the secret text





[Last edited by bodkin at 04-10-2012 09:59 AM : a wrong statement that might confuse other people]
04-08-2012 at 02:41 AM
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Banjooie
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (-1)  
So you can't find it if you restore to

You know what I just outright refuse to touch the main hold ever again
04-08-2012 at 07:03 AM
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Doom
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+2)  
Blaming it on the rest of the hold?

...

Okay!

By the way it explicitly mentions 'secret activated' now when you can get to the level (you may not see this if you didn't get any of the game updates yet).
04-08-2012 at 08:55 AM
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Banjooie
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
Which I didn't, around the time I was looking for it.

I know I'm the only guy who is apparently annoyed at all about this but still.
04-08-2012 at 04:42 PM
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deftriver
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
Okay, I've found 11 scrolls, but I can't figure out how to read one of them. First I would like to know where the other two are and second I can't for the life of me unscramble these words! Where do I go?

Where I've found scrolls:
Click here to view the secret text


EDIT: Removed letters from the locations

[Last edited by deftriver at 04-13-2012 05:32 AM]
04-12-2012 at 11:27 PM
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Briareos
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
That list is missing
Click here to view the secret text
, and you need to return to the
Click here to view the secret text
later on to get to the scroll.

np: Dettinger - Grount (Pop Ambient 2002)

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[Last edited by Briareos at 04-12-2012 11:47 PM]
04-12-2012 at 11:47 PM
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deftriver
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (0)  
Thanks for the help, I've found all the scrolls, now I have no idea how to unscramble into three words 6, 3, and 4 letters long. I see the clue about the first letter of each but I still don't know. This is so frustrating.

Obob wrote:
Click here to view the secret text
04-13-2012 at 05:48 AM
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bwross
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
There are plenty of anagram generators out there if you need mechanical assistance.
04-13-2012 at 06:17 AM
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Emojk
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icon Re: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder : The Spider Cave : Entrance (+1)  
deftriver wrote:
Thanks for the help, I've found all the scrolls, now I have no idea how to unscramble into three words 6, 3, and 4 letters long. I see the clue about the first letter of each but I still don't know. This is so frustrating.

Obob wrote:
Click here to view the secret text

The first two, in particular, are very relevant. Look in the help file for two words beginning by this letter and which could apply to this situation. Hint: the first two letters are capitals.
04-13-2012 at 08:05 AM
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