Penwielder
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I'm starting to think I should swap 14 with 16. Or perhaps move 14 to 16, 16 to 15, and 15 to 14. The aumtlich in 16 would make it fit in fine with the 13-15 set. Also, like 13, 16 is mostly a distinct chain of events. 14 might also fit in better with the 16-18 set for reasons that I won't yet say. I would just have to redecorate those two.

I'll hold off on making any changes like that until you've finished the related parts of the hold (and perhaps given your insights on the idea).

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Penwielder's Palace, Detention Complex, Archipelago, Cube of Memories

Dischorran
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I cleared 16, which I suppose is my quota for the evening. It's a really neat room, but has enough different moving parts that I'm not sure I'd put it earlier in the hold. It also has enough different moving parts that it's hard to know whether I had the right solution - was I supposed to use the goblin?

EDIT: OK, so maybe that wasn't my quota. 17 is also neat, assuming that I'm indeed never supposed to be able to reach the rattlesnake's tail or use the disarm token. With the speed potion, the roach never ended up giving me any problems.

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[Last edited by Dischorran at 03-31-2011 04:49 AM]

Penwielder
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Yes, you're intended to use the goblin in 16. Nothing else can serve the purpose that it does (unless I missed something). Zorglub had the whole chain of monster uses correct, if you want to double-check yourself. Alternatively, you could post a demo.

17 is a bit off... yet again. That one is my favorite, but I just can't seem to get it right. You are presently intended to get the rattlesnake entirely out of its container. Perhaps I should require what you did, but lengthen the door so that the rattlesnake still has to go the same distance as it currently would to escape. I don't have it with me now, but I should be able to look at it tonight.

EDIT: You never used the disarm token?! I have to see this.

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Penwielder's Palace, Detention Complex, Archipelago, Cube of Memories

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[Last edited by Penwielder at 03-31-2011 04:49 PM]

Dischorran
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OK, have a pack o' demos.

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Zorglub
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14 and 17 done.
In 17, I didn't use the disarm token either. I used the fegundo to dispose the rattlesnake.
I'm still stuck on the new 6th.
EDIT: 6th done. That was mean.

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[Last edited by Zorglub at 03-31-2011 08:38 PM]

Penwielder
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After going through your set of demos, version 7 is now up.

Changes:
8: Moved a bush again. You don't need to trap one wraithwing to get rid of the other, you know. Not a big deal.
12: I feared a solution like yours might be possible. It should be prevented now.
15: Slight change in the position of a decoy. You should have no trouble if you've solved it before, but you need to do it slightly differently.
16: Slight change here. My demo and Zorglub's demo are unaffected. Dischorran, your solution should be slightly broken now.
17: You should need to use the disarm token now, as well as getting the rattlesnake all the way out. (In theory, you could stab the rattlesnake immediately before it's actually off of the door, but you know what I mean; it would be free at that point.)

Other comments:
6: I'm glad it works now.
14: I put the wubba back in temporarily to watch your demo. Your solution was even better than I had imagined it, but unintended all the same.

Level order will probably not be changed.

You two are doing a really good job. I'm surprised at the number of unintended solutions in here, but they're slowly and surely getting patched up.

EDIT: Anyone who has posted demos up to this point is free to remove them.
EDIT II: Just made a successful run through the set myself (aside from the uncharted island) in 37:06.

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Penwielder's Palace, Detention Complex, Archipelago, Cube of Memories

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[Last edited by Penwielder at 04-01-2011 02:04 AM]

Zorglub
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Just realized 18 was changed with the bombs and my demo was out.
I solved it without using the clone potion.

Zorglub
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Demos removed.
8 OK
12 OK. Glad that my over complex solution to the previous version proved a good first step for this latest release.
15 OK
16 unaffected for me.
17 OK: I indeed had to use the disarm token. I'm afraid it might be unintended that I don't need the adder nor the roach.

Penwielder
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17: Still sounds quite unintended. How did you get anything on the pressure plate at (16, 24) if it wasn't the adder? (That is, unless you killed the decoy, in which case you couldn't then get rid of the southernmost roach.)

18: You mean you hadn't used the clone in your previous solution, or in a current one?

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Zorglub
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17: I unarmed, then used the mimics for the 10,9 pp with help of the fegundo, then the fegundo pressed the plate, killed the decoy to exit, killed the rattle, killed the last roach.

18: In the latest release, I'm not using the clone. I place the snake in the trap, use the roach to let the mimic on the 30,24 door so it can explode the bombs. Then the mimic can go kill the adder and the last roach.

Penwielder
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Version 8 uploaded. My demos for all affected islands still work.

17: I was able to duplicate your solution based on your description. I hoped to leave open the option of killing the decoy with the fegundo from the outside, but it's too obviously incorrect with the southernmost roach in there now. I finally gave in and sealed off the decoy.
18: You shouldn't be able to blow up the bombs (and still clear the room) under any circumstances now.

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Zorglub
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18: Solved it without the clone. Mimic pressed the plate while unharmed.
I'm working on 17.
EDIT: 17 done using a disarmed mimic to release the rattle. Disposed of the adder and roach right at the beginning.

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[Last edited by Zorglub at 04-04-2011 10:59 AM]

TFMurphy
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Figured I might as well throw my demos into the pot, since I had some spare time and was curious enough to give things a try.

Included two solutions each for #15, #17 and #18 (as well as my solutions for all other islands). The #17 US is probably easy to fix (and the other solution is what Zorglub did), the #18 extra solution is also what Zorglub did. And the #15 extra solution involved a disarmed Mimic activating the Power Token.

Will remove demos whenever you're done with them. EDIT: Removed.

EDIT: Not included is a solution I've found very recently for #6 which involves using the wubbas to escape the roach trap in the SW, and thus bringing the citizen to the mimic (rather than the other way around).

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[Last edited by TFMurphy at 04-04-2011 09:21 PM]

noma
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So I downloaded this a while hoping to give some comments, but I've been stuck on Second Island since then. Feeling like a schmo as I can't get close. I can get two roaches parked behind me west of the orb, but that's hasn't proved helpful. Any tips?

Penwielder
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Thanks for the demos, TFMurphy. I'll deal with all of this when I can.

noma:


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Penwielder's Palace, Detention Complex, Archipelago, Cube of Memories

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[Last edited by Penwielder at 06-06-2011 11:40 PM]

Rat Man
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noma wrote:
So I downloaded this a while hoping to give some comments, but I've been stuck on Second Island since then. Feeling like a schmo as I can't get close. I can get two roaches parked behind me west of the orb, but that's hasn't proved helpful. Any tips?

I was on the same boat as you. Then I finally made it and got thoroughly stuck on the fourth.

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I'M IN SPACE!

noma
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Thanks P. That worked a treat.

Dischorran
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In need of hintage on 18 at the moment, I think, or at least some reassurance that I don't have to do precisely timed manipulation of the adder through the left-hand side in order to use the one-tile raft instead of the three-tile one. Because counting adder turns for movement preference hurts my brain.

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Penwielder
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You can have the latter, Dischorran: There's no need for excessive fine manipulation. Before I go about giving any further hints, that one still has some fixing up to be done. I think what I should do is seal in the clone potion so that you can't regain the mimic if you send it through there.

Rat Man: Island four:


EDIT: Dischorran, what you said about the rafts has confused me.

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Penwielder's Palace, Detention Complex, Archipelago, Cube of Memories

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[Last edited by Penwielder at 06-06-2011 11:41 PM]

TFMurphy
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Penwielder wrote:
EDIT: Dischorran, what you said about the rafts has confused me.

On a related note, another very interesting solution for #18 would be possible if:


As for locking off the clone potion, do remember that mimics can't move over tunnels. And currently, the clone potion isn't *really* needed even if the player goes after that plate himself:

Dischorran
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Penwielder wrote:
EDIT: Dischorran, what you said about the rafts has confused me.

Basically, what I want to do is more or less TFMurphy's "another very interesting solution." Get the adder trapped in the north central dead end, bring a raft over, and count cycles appropriately for it to head into its home. I can't do that with the current L-shaped raft, so I was looking at putting the one-tile raft there instead and manipulating the adder from the south to get it there and still have time to reach the door lock.

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TFMurphy
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Dischorran wrote:
Basically, what I want to do is more or less TFMurphy's "another very interesting solution." Get the adder trapped in the north central dead end, bring a raft over, and count cycles appropriately for it to head into its home.

Actually, the solution I'm hinting at (that wouldn't work with the current room, as far as I can see) doesn't involve getting the adder trapped in that dead end first.

In fact, is there a reason why you're trapping the adder there? Why not get the raft into place first and then guide the adder from the front?

Dischorran
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If I do that, I don't have time to get to the southeast doors before the adder starts releasing plates. Or, at least, I haven't figured out the right way to do it.

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TFMurphy
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Dischorran wrote:
If I do that, I don't have time to get to the southeast doors before the adder starts releasing plates. Or, at least, I haven't figured out the right way to do it.

Penwielder
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I'm a bit on the busy side, so this update only changes island 18, since you've been talking about it.

There have been two changes to this island:
1. I sealed in the decoy potion. After only this change, my demo still worked, but all others I have received were broken.
2. Just to be safe, I changed the SW roach to an eye which can't ever see you. This change invalidated the last part of my demo, but I have now replaced it to reassure us all--myself included--that it is possible.

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Penwielder's Palace, Detention Complex, Archipelago, Cube of Memories

TFMurphy
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Solved #18 in a new way, possibly intended. In this case, the clone potion makes more sense now. I will note that the mechanic used is a bit specific, and I would not expect most people to know it and understand how it works before seeing it.


I do have one note:

Penwielder wrote:
2. Just to be safe, I changed the SW roach to an eye which can't ever see you. This change invalidated the last part of my demo, but I have now replaced it to reassure us all--myself included--that it is possible.

If the Evil Eye is now obviously of no use, then I'd rather the orb opened up another door on the path to either the plate, the roach, or to killing the adder. Having to lug the mimic halfway across the level just to kill an obviously useless Evil Eye when there's already something that must obviously be killed by the mimic just seems to be dragging the level out.

EDIT: Oh, and now that you have another way of dealing with not letting the Mimic to get to the plate, you could probably remove the bombs and the tar blob to make the room a bit cleaner. The room's involved enough as it is without extra clutter.

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[Last edited by TFMurphy at 04-06-2011 06:41 AM]

Penwielder
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That solution sounds right, TFMurphy. I agree with both of your other suggestions. The bombs and tar will vanish in the next version. The orb will probably open a second door to the roach.

I probably won't get much chance to work on this until Friday (April 15).

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Penwielder's Palace, Detention Complex, Archipelago, Cube of Memories

Penwielder
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Next version done! I decided to attach it here this time.

I modified 11-18 and 5. To avoid wasting time, make sure your demo is actually broken before redoing anything.

6 is the only one that I'm not really sure what to do with. I've left it unchanged for now.

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TFMurphy
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Attached new demos for #5, #14, #15, #16 and #17. Haven't got around to recompleting #11-#13 yet: probably won't until next weekend. Also, weren't you going to remove the Evil Eye from #18? EDIT: Oh, you only said you were going to remove the bombs and tar in the next version: when I'd read your reply, I'd combined that with the "agree with both your suggestions" thing.

EDIT 2: Found a bit more time, so have included demos for #11-#13 in the archive. Also added another solution for #5.

EDIT 3: Given that you'll probably change #16 again rather fast, here's an additional solution added to the archive.

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[Last edited by TFMurphy at 04-18-2011 10:03 AM]

da rogu3
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Just played through this. It varied in difficulty, but was mostly fun. Here are some comments on the specific rooms I've done so far:


As for checkpoints, they were plentiful and in helpful spots so no problems there. Hope these comments have been helpful, I'll give feedback on the rest of the rooms as I solve them.

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[Last edited by da rogu3 at 04-19-2011 07:08 PM]