robin
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 842
Registered: 09-01-2004
IP: Logged

I don't see what I have to do here?
(I can't get the roaches killed)

any hints please?

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Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

This is a desireble situation:

Elswyyr
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 22
Registered: 07-31-2013
IP: Logged

File: Udklip.PNG (250 KB)
Downloaded 66 times.
License: Public Domain

I'm unsure how to make this happen. I've managed to get this far. Can I work that into the setup Blondbeard suggests? If so, how?

kikuchiyo
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 107
Registered: 04-01-2012
IP: Logged

I'm stuck here. I can kill one roach, and then run around with the other indefinitely, but the rock piles end up in an arrangement that is useless for killing that other roach. I can't get anything resembling the desirable situation in the hint above (nor do I understand why is it desirable).

Any hints?

Dying Flutchman
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
Registered: 01-27-2017
IP: Logged

Hi,

I did play this some time ago, but have no demos. However, I can offer some general brain-orthosquare-roach remarks that might help you.

1. A brained roach does not 'see' orthosquares when tracing out its path to you. Of course, when actually making a move, the OS will nonetheless block any diagonal moves.
2. The trick is thus to fool the roach into wanting to move diagonally through an OS, getting it blocked and frying it.
3. When brained, a roach checks all moves which bring it closer to you along the path that has been mapped out by the brain.
4. First, it checks horizontal/vertical moves. It does so in the order N, W, E, S. If none of these moves bring it closer to you, it tries diagonal moves in the order NW, NE, SW, SE. So SE is the last move it ever considers when brained. If no move is found that brings the roach closer to you, the brain gives up and the roach just acts as if no brain where present.

With some (very much, probably) thinking, this allows you to construct a solution as follows:

This works because
1. The brain finds a shortest path to you right through the OS.
2. Now, the roach tries which moves help to get it closer to you along this path.
3. N and W will bring the roach further from you, so they don't work. S and E are blocked by corpses.
4. What about diagonal moves? Hey! Going SE should work, according to the brain. However in reality, this move is blocked. But going SE is actually the last move that is checked by the brained roach...
5. So now the brain gives up and the roach behaves unbrained. And an unbrained roach will simply be stuck and get fried.

Hurray!

Ok. This was written completely ex cranium. So I hope I didn't mess up. But the general explanation of brained behaviour should be roughly correct.

BTW: if you are interested in understanding these types of complex interactions, go play Advanced Concepts. This hold focuses I explaining the gory details that enable you to solve rooms like this without trial and error. It is a very good hold that helps you to play much better, but is also very entertaining in itself. Can't recommend it enough really. There is even a follow up: Advanced Concepts 2 for more gory details if the first gory details are not gory enough.


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Autocorrect is not my friend. Apologies for the typos.

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[Last edited by Dying Flutchman at 01-10-2019 08:22 AM]

kikuchiyo
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 107
Registered: 04-01-2012
IP: Logged

Excellent description! I was able to do it.

I did play with Advanced Concepts years ago, but apparently the gory details of the interaction of ortho squares and brained pathmaps eluded me.

Thanks again.