disoriented
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This may be covered later on, but I thought I'd ask anyway.


I've solved the room. When the roach hits the pressure plate at (1), why does it then go north several times? If the brain to its west is a brain-invisible obstacle (the door is open), shouldn't it try to go west in order to minimize the distance? (Or oscillate north and south?) To the brain, going north to (2) would seem to keep the distance the same.

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[Last edited by disoriented at 12-17-2008 04:36 PM]

Chaco
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It does try to go West, but it can't (because the invisible obstacle is there).

Since going North doesn't increase the amount of distance between the roach and the target, the roach heads North.

(There's a *lot* of explanation of brained preferences and their effects in this level. Keep exploring.)

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disoriented
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Chaco wrote:
It does try to go West, but it can't (because the invisible obstacle is there).

Since going North doesn't increase the amount of distance between the roach and the target, the roach heads North.

(There's a *lot* of explanation of brained preferences and their effects in this level. Keep exploring.)

OK thanks; I think it's actually switching to unbrained behavior though, because it could not move west. Yes?

Will keep going...

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Chaco
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disoriented wrote:
OK thanks; I think it's actually switching to unbrained behavior though, because it could not move west. Yes?

Will keep going...

No, it would only switch to unbrained behavior if one of the following were true:

A. There was no longer a brained path from it to Beethro
B. All the moves tried under brained preferences would take it further away from Beethro
C. The brain ordered the roach to Wait (which will be covered later in the hold)

The roach is still brained; it just wasn't able to go to its most preferred square.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 12-18-2008 10:51 AM]

TFMurphy
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Chaco wrote:
No, it would only switch to unbrained behavior if one of the following were true:

A. There was no longer a brained path from it to Beethro
B. All the moves tried under brained preferences would take it further away from Beethro
C. The brain ordered the roach to Wait (which will be covered later in the hold)

B isn't true, actually. It's *usually* the case due to C - a square that is further away from Beethro would have less priority than Wait, which would naturally be closer. But if the tile the roach is on is a Brain-Visible Obstacle itself, then Wait would no longer be a brained option. The western chamber of ABM:2S demonstrates this.

Anyways, you can often tell whether a roach is brained or not by looking at the way they're facing: they will face the way they've chosen to move. In the situation described in the opening post, the roach would be facing N, not NW towards the player, which indicates that a brained move was used. Of course, if the brained move matches an unbrained direction, then you won't be able to use this, but it helps in many different situations.

disoriented
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I wonder if this would be a good enhancement to DROD: right-click a monster shows whether it is brained or not. It might be useful especially if the monster is constantly switching back and forth.

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Dex Stewart
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Or right-clicking a monster shows it's next n moves (you can set n in the settings panel) if the room otherwise maintains it's exact same state.

dart193
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I can't solve upper part right now. Any hints?

mxvladi
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Well, you need to put mirrors in the way of the roach. Remember that it'll always choose NW instead of SW.

neveragain
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The section of the room marked at 1 looks impossible. I need help with the entire area of that room. I cannot get the pressure plates activated.

CuriousShyRabbit
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There are two concepts you need to use in this section.

1. Brains themselves are brain-invisible obstacles. A brain pathmap goes straight through brain-invisible obstacles, so a brained monster may walk right up to a brain, expecting to walk through it! Yellow doors, on the other hand, are brain-visible obstacles. A brain pathmap never goes through a closed yellow door. Review the lesson in 3W for this.

2. Brained monsters take the shortest path to you. In determining which of several equally short paths to use, the movement preferences are: N, W, E, S, wait, NW, NE, SW, SE. Review the lesson in 2W for this. In short, it means a brained monster prefers orthogonal movement to diagonal movement whenever it has a choice.

So how it works in the section you're asking about...


Hopefully, that's enough to get you going...

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[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 07-08-2009 03:43 AM]

neveragain
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It was.

Thelas
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Okay. Wow.
The only section I can get right is the second from the top. Everything else... help?
[Yeah, I know, I probably shouldn't be doing this yet, but I finished the first Brained Movement...]
Thelas

CuriousShyRabbit
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Unless you have a more specific question, I'd suggest going back to spend more time replaying 3W and 2W. Those rooms are deceptively quick and easy to pass through. You need to spend time studying the densely packed information there, as it will all be used in your solution to 1W.

Thelas
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Okay, specific question time: how do you get past the left half of the top puzzle? I only used one mirror on the right half, so the left half has two to work with.

How do you get the roach not stuck in the bottom section after hitting the 21,25 pressure plate?

How do you get the second-bottom section roach to hit the 25,19 pressure plate instead of skipping it with diagonals?

Thelas

mxvladi
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how do you get past the left half of the top puzzle? I only used one mirror on the right half, so the left half has two to work with.

How do you get the roach not stuck in the bottom section after hitting the 21,25 pressure plate?

I'd say you should re-read scroll in the bottom part of the room. It's a very good hint how to do that.(otherwise I could post spoiler, but that won't be fun for you to solve )

How do you get the second-bottom section roach to hit the 25,19 pressure plate instead of skipping it with diagonals?

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 09-15-2009 11:23 PM]

Thelas
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Second-to-bottom part solved, thanks.
Top part update: no dice. Can you give me the position of one of the mirrors? (or if that's too big a hint, a square that is adjacent to one of the mirrors?)

Bottom part update: I can force the roach to hit three of the plates, but I don't see how to get it onto 21,29.

Thelas

mxvladi
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Top part update: no dice. Can you give me the position of one of the mirrors? (or if that's too big a hint, a square that is adjacent to one of the mirrors?)

Bottom part update: I can force the roach to hit three of the plates, but I don't see how to get it onto 21,29.

Thelas
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Top part solved.
Bottom part solved. So why am I still posting?
I didn't realize the roach had missed the very leftmost pressure plate in the second-bottom one.
*Tries about 10 times*
YES. YES. YEEEEEES!
I solved it, in case you can't tell! Thanks for all the help, now on to the next part of Advanced Brain Movement.

Thelas

Godot23
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Ok, cannot get it. Demo please? I want to get it, but I guess I need to see it in order to make it work.

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slimm tom
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File: AC Advanced Brain Movement 1W Victory.demo (4.7 KB)
Downloaded 83 times.
License: Public Domain

Here's my (very inefficient) demo.

Godot23
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That did it! Thanks!

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