zwetschenwasser
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 200
Registered: 05-22-2007
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The probability token is, to me, an interesting new addition to the slate of tokens available on the Level Editor. The token, when stepped on, decreases the probability that all other tokens in a room will activate when stepped on by a scriptable fraction (default is .5). An example: There's a conquer token in the middle of a room that you can only step on once (due to force arrows and trapdoors). Unfortunately, the evil architect forced you to step on a probability token early on in the room, which made the chances that when you step on the conquer token you will actually conquer the room 50/50. Too much luck, you say? Ahh, but here's the fun part. The antiprobability token undoes the effect of a probability token. So if you stepped on two 50/50 probability tokens and know that you can't activate the disarm token you need to go through a bunch of trapdoors untrapped, you now have to go through a mini-puzzle on the other side of the room to reach the three scripted 1/3 antiprobability tokens that will restore the functionality of the disarm token in the room. Comments? Tomatoes? Maybe even a tray of banana milkshake poptarts?

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Currently working on GaTEB and KDD (never finished the silly thing).

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

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zwetschenwasser wrote:
Comments? Tomatoes? Maybe even a tray of banana milkshake poptarts?

Considering that every other element in DROD doesn't depend on chance, is 100% deterministic and repeatable I don't see this ever being considered for inclusion... sorry.

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Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
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I can't really see the appeal of this, and I can't see it ever being implemented.

Some of the central tenets of DROD puzzles are - no randomness and the availability of all information required to solve the puzzle.

Let us suppose that you have 50/50 chance of activating a token - what's to stop you restoring back one (or more) moves and stepping on it again until you activate it.

In general, I don't see why players should be randomly penalised, at no fault of their own.

If you really want a situation where you have to solve a mini-puzzle elsewhere to access a token, why not have a yellow door barring the token, with the mini-puzzle leading up to an orb to open that door.

[Edit: Post-collision. Yeah, what he said]

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[Last edited by Jacob at 11-20-2008 12:23 AM]

zwetschenwasser
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 200
Registered: 05-22-2007
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In that case, why not have a token off-button?

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Currently working on GaTEB and KDD (never finished the silly thing).

slimm tom
Level: Smitemaster

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Registered: 10-14-2006
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zwetschenwasser wrote:
In that case, why not have a token off-button?

That's better IMO. This can require players to activate it to not be disarmed in another part or the room. Many other combinations are possible too.

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2334
Registered: 06-14-2005
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Besides, with probability, backspace kind of ruins it all. It wouldn't work even if people would accept it.

Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 385
Registered: 05-05-2006
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And, of course, there's that one fatal flaw: Demos. Because demos don't record everything that happens (the game is assumed to behave the same every time anyways), a 50/50 token that works when you play the room has a chance of failing in the demo, breaking it.

Demos are very important. They're not just for high scores. They're also used for undoing; if demostate differs from gamestate, the undo feature will do freaky things. And when you download an update to a hold, I believe the game verifies all your demos; if none of your demos for a room work, you won't be able to restore past it (meaning lost progress).

A token-off switch... I haven't heard that requested before. Points for creativity, but I think its purposes are limited to enforcing the intended solution to a room. Most tokens undo themselves, so rather than have a Disarm and a Token-Off, have two Disarms. The only difference is that the player will be swordless between the two, which in my opinion makes things interesting.

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