Banjooie
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So, remember that time we all chortled because the arrow rotation tiles looked kind of silly in TCB?

Yes. This time, by god, I am actually going to at least pretend I have the gumption to do something about it, unless I get lazy or senile or forget or something. But!

I know that there are people like me except with a work ethic! I know this because they've actually produced things that are kind of cool, many of them are listed under that Master List Of Projects back when UrAvgAzn was busy confusing us all with the disparity between quality of his name and quality of his posts.

So, on account of I'd really like to stop complaining about how loloriffic the keys look, I'd like at the very least to know what sort of trickery I have to perpetuate in order to slap some pixels down on a graphic and do something kind of cool.

...For instance, I think I would definitely start with /portable orbs/.

Just sayin.

Edit: Changed the title of the post. It was wild good times.

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[Last edited by Banjooie at 10-20-2008 07:41 AM]

Jutt
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File: Tim Codes RPG.drmf (62 KB)
Downloaded 70 times.
License: Public Domain

Modding seems to work in exactly the same way as with TCB. So if you want to know the procedure, read an article on TCB modding and apply that knowledge to Drod RPG.

Two additional things you should know however:
- The colour for transparency in tiles has been changed and is now magenta (#FF00FF or 255,0,255).
- The number codes for the tiles you need in the tim file may not always correspond to the codes in TCB, or have no corresponding TCB tiles at all. The codes for tiles used in regular style mods seem identical (I succesfully converted a TCB style while keeping the same tim file), but that won't help you with tiles for new game elements.
To figure which number corresponds with a tile, I made a simple style mod for Drod RPG (see attachment), which replaces all tiles with their corresponding tim codes. Simply import that style and play with it in the editor to figure out any codes you need.

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kyevan
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While we're at it, the other inevitable request: srcplz!

(For those of you who don't speak the pidgin of coder and 4chanish I used, source code please!)

silver
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kyevan wrote:
While we're at it, the other inevitable request: srcplz!

(For those of you who don't speak the pidgin of coder and 4chanish I used, source code please!)

I'm sure he's just waiting to clear up the inevitable post-release bug reports



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Sillyman
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But wouldn't that be made easier if we could give him a patch ourselves? Oh, and for proper win, the chanspeak is "sauce".

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kyevan
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Sillyman wrote:
But wouldn't that be made easier if we could give him a patch ourselves? Oh, and for proper win, the chanspeak is "sauce".

No, "sauce" is only source in the sense of "where is this from". It's improper to refer to the Sauce Engine (Valve's Source Engine), for example.

src is a common abbreviation in coderland, so.

Sillyman
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kyevan wrote:

Sillyman wrote:
But wouldn't that be made easier if we could give him a patch ourselves? Oh, and for proper win, the chanspeak is "sauce".

No, "sauce" is only source in the sense of "where is this from". It's improper to refer to the Sauce Engine (Valve's Source Engine), for example.

src is a common abbreviation in coderland, so.

Reasoning accepted.... except that Sauce Engine is proper, because the Sauce of Steam is (a) Valve. Have a nice day.

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halyavin
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Banjooie wrote:
So, on account of I'd really like to stop complaining about how loloriffic the keys look, I'd like at the very least to know what sort of trickery I have to perpetuate in order to slap some pixels down on a graphic and do something kind of cool.

I am the only one who thinks that yellow keys are not yellow? I was very confused at the start of the game because of that.

NiroZ
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they look fairly yellow to me.

silver
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kinda beige on my monitor


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TFMurphy
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The dominant color on the key is around 254/229/168 in RGB and 43°/34%/100% in HSV. Pure Yellow has a Hue of 60°, so the keys tend to be more of an orange color (washed-out by the high lightness). Closest color to this I can find listed in Wikipedia is "Peach-yellow", which is 40°/29%/100%, though I'm not sure of its source. It and similar colors are definitely considered shades of yellow, I'll note, but I guess there's the possibility of *some* confusion here.

Someone Else
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Personally, I click on every key to find out what it is. The first time through, I didn't even realize I had picked up a white key until I used it on a green door.

Hikari
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I keep having problems with thinking yellow keys are whites. Not quite sure why I do that, really.

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Someone Else
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It's green and yellow I get mixed up, and I also mix up blue and white.

RRodgers
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Is it just me, or do the keys look exactly like those in Tower of the Sorcerer? (Except for the colour.)

It is just my personal opinion, but the key graphics kinda ruin the niceness caused by the rest of the graphics. It makes the game look slightly older, and doesn't really fit in with the other tiles. While I am on this subject: DROD RPG appears to have the same key graphics as TotS, so why are the power gems different? (They look like they could use some revamping too.) TotS has those as well.

But DROD RPG is much more fun than Tower of the Sorcerer, even if the concept is just about identical. So it's not like I am complaining about it. Keep up the awesome DROD-eriffic work!

Pinnacle
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RRodgers wrote:
But DROD RPG is much more fun than Tower of the Sorcerer, even if the concept is just about identical. So it's not like I am complaining about it. Keep up the awesome DROD-eriffic work!

Two words: Level design.
ToTS hates the player. It's the I Wanna Be The Guy of puzzle-RPGs.
DROD RPG is reasonable while still challenging.

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Banjooie
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well, wait, hold on

DROD RPG has...doesn't it have /more tiles/ than TCB?

Or does it not have arrow rotators and stuff, and that's what we're replacing.

Jutt
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I don't really see what point you're trying to make, but the RPG has just a few more tiles than TCB, about 50 or so. There's both stuff in TCB that's not in the RPG and vice versa and it nearly evens out.

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Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements

Banjooie
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Well, okay:

The issue here mostly being modding TCB couldn't really be the same as RPG if the number of tiles are different, because the placement of tiles is different.

Jutt
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I assume with the placement of the tiles you mean their placement in the standard graphics template.
However the tim codes do not correspond to actual locations within the template, they're only liked to the tiles themselves.
For the RPG apparently the codes were kept for all (or at least most) tiles which were converted from TCB, even though the tiles were reordered within the template.

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Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements

Banjooie
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....Okay, uh.

So, if I want to make a template.

Should I start with flaming peligroso from JtRH, and just make everything twice as big?

Jutt
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Well, yea, that's about it. Make the tiles twice as big, change the transparency colour… Don't forget the floor and pit images, which you might want to resize as well.

Oh, and one more thing I noticed: the RPG handles shadows for stairs differently. They're now overlayed from separate shadow tiles. This means you'll have to omit any stair tiles with shadows from the template and especially the .tim file, as their tim codes have been assigned to other objects now.

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Collaborative: Way Forward, Advanced Concepts 2
Styles/Mods: Basalt, Sandstone, Garden, Clock using game elements

Banjooie
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Okay, so, from what I read around, what I should be doing is this.

Step 1: Let's only edit one png for now, we'll change CityTiles.png to HalpTiles.png

Step 2: Let's doodle on it a bit, and then throw it into the /Data/Bitmaps folder

Step 3: Edit drodrpg.ini kinda like this.
Graphics]
Halp=Halp
Style=Aboveground;City;Deep Spaces;Fortress;Foundation;Iceworks;Halp

Step 4: Open DROD:RPG, boot up the ol' hold builder, and see my terrible doodles ingame!

I can't figure out what part I'm doing wrong.

aztcg7
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Also in the Data/Bitmaps folder, you need a .tim file, named Halp.tim, which tells DROD what order those tiles are in. Otherwise, DROD doesn't know which such and such tile is actually supposed to replace.

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Banjooie
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....So, I, uh, that raises a rather big question for me.

Does that mean the order you put the tiles down in the image itself is completely meaningless, if you set the .tim file the way it's supposed to be?

Edit: And why the flaming fegundo is there a 'refresh sprites' button but not a 'refresh style' button.

A leading number of surveyed Banjs do not understand.

I know I can just hit escape, change style to foundation, change back, but.

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[Last edited by Banjooie at 10-01-2008 10:21 PM]

silver
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Banjooie wrote:
Does that mean the order you put the tiles down in the image itself is completely meaningless, if you set the .tim file the way it's supposed to be?

yes. you can put the images in any order, as long as your .tim file maps appropriate chunks of the image the way you want.

for example, sword images don't have to be "N NE E SE S SW W NW" all one line. they could be one image per "line" (or two or three or whatever), and/or in a mixed up order if you prefer. it's just convenient to make sword images in that order because (for the example of Beethro's only sword in DROD non-RPG) the .tim file can be "16-23", which is kinda simple to write.

if you thought it easier to visualize/edit, you could order the sword images

NW   N  NE
 W  --  E
SW   S  SE

then your .tim file would be

23,16,17
18,!1,19
20-22

(notice the !1 indicating a chunk of the image which isn't even used. DROD will simply ignore it, and you could put your signature there(*) or something)
(note again: .tim example is for "Beethro's only sword" from DROD pre-RPG)

(*) provided your signature is sufficiently small and simple enough that it can be made to be recognizable in 22x22 pixels

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[Last edited by silver at 10-01-2008 10:27 PM]

Banjooie
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SO!

Water.

How do I edit water? This is expressly important because I'm going to have to be /clever/ on how I make reflection work, it looks like.

Sillyman
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I think water is just a main tile and tiles for the floor next to various configurations of water. I could be wrong though... but I don't think so!

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Banjooie
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thus is the confusion because I'm working off of...uh. Honestly, I'm swiping volcano? 3.0? The one with the lava pits and brick pits. Yeah.

And I don't see water tiles on it so I don't know what I'm looking for.

Sillyman
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Uh... hmm... hurr.

Edit: Ah. Have you tried actually loading Volcano up in the (TCB) editor and placing water? That should tell you what water is.

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[Last edited by Sillyman at 10-09-2008 09:17 AM]