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Réchèr
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agaricus5 wrote:
Therefore this is why I wanted to use the word "cachot"/"oubliette" to make sure that the reader understands that it is a "Dungeon Roach" that we are talking about, and not just an ordinary, harmless cockroach.

If you still disagree, then tell me why, and I'll see what I can do.

You are right on the fact that it is not sufficient to simply call this "un cafard". In fact, it is more a problem of style than a problem of translation. but I know that the word "cachot" can not be used for this.

It reminds me of another funny translation. With some friends, I used to play role playing games, using the "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" universe. You surely know that in role playing games, there are player characters and a master. In the books of AD&D, the master is called "Dungeon master". In the French version of these books, the master is called "maître de cachot", which is the exact translation of the words. I remember we spent a certain amount of time laughing about this bad translation. The real translation is "Maître du jeu" (game master).

You surely have words of the same sort in English, words that are used in the literacy, but not for common use, "cachot" is one of these. Anyway, this does not solve the problem of the "dungeon roach".

The problem is to find a word to associate with the roach that would make understand that it is a big and terrible roach. For this : "cafard géant" would be appropriated, but perhaps a little too weak. You could also use "cafard tueur" (killing roach), it sounds quite good in French language. For the moment, I can not find a better way to translate this.

I can't find "le blob" in my French dictionary - is it some sort of slang, and what does it actually mean?

Well it is normal you can not find it in your dictionary, it was only used in one film, it designated a sort of jelly that eated people. The more people eated, the bigger the jelly grew. At the end of the film, the whole quantity of jelly was as big as a house. The film was bad, but the word "blob" has been kept. And know, when we see a monster like the tar in a video games or in another film, we call this "un blob". (Drod is not the only video game with monsters that look like tar, but you know that of course).

If you talk about a blob with a person who is familiar to video games and/or films, he knows what it is, but it is not a word used by everyone, this is why it is not in you dictionary.


Well that's all for today. And for the translation of the site in French, it is possible, but in two months time at least, I am a student and there is a lot of things to take care of (works, feasts, etc.) So I will wait the holiday before starting something serious with this. But it can be done, I think I would begin with the little short stories you have put in the website.


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04-28-2003 at 08:41 PM
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agaricus5
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Réchèr wrote:
Well that's all for today. And for the translation of the site in French, it is possible, but in two months time at least, I am a student and there is a lot of things to take care of (works, feasts, etc.) So I will wait the holiday before starting something serious with this. But it can be done, I think I would begin with the little short stories you have put in the website.

Wait!

Are you really serious?

If so, it would be an interesting addition to DROD.net to have stories in French, and I would say that it might be a good idea. However, I'm not the owner of DROD.net; while I can give you the go-ahead to do it, I'm only a "Delver In The Background", so it's Malarame (mafinot@hotmail.com) who has the last say. If I were you, I'd ask him first (Though he'd probably agree anyway).

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04-28-2003 at 10:47 PM
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agaricus5
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Erik, since we're on the topiic, how about translating "Dungeon Roach" into "Sihmpuhl English" for us (I'm too tired right now to bother!)

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05-21-2003 at 12:02 AM
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ErikH2000
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agaricus5 wrote:
Erik, since we're on the topiic, how about translating "Dungeon Roach" into "Sihmpuhl English" for us (I'm too tired right now to bother!)
Okay, I guess I'll do it.
[siteimage]DungeonRoachSEText.jpg[/siteimage]

Also, just for the hell of it, here is a picture of the Sihmple Englihsh Cipher used for generating the text. So let it be known that a consistent documented method exists. But there is just one Cipher and it is safely tucked away.
[siteimage]Cipher.jpg[/siteimage]

-Erik

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05-22-2003 at 06:36 PM
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ErikH2000 wrote:

Also, just for the hell of it, here is a picture of the Sihmple Englihsh Cipher used for generating the text. So let it be known that a consistent documented method exists.

-Erik

ErikH2000 wrote on the DROD.net site:

The Wormspeaker
A story written in "Sihmpuhl Englihsh".

Consistent? :D

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05-22-2003 at 09:09 PM
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ErikH2000
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Watcher wrote:
Consistent? :D
Ah, you got me. :eyes

-Erik

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05-22-2003 at 10:08 PM
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zex20913
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It's okay, you have a nifty picture...and you're catching up to me in posts! I must work on that...

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05-23-2003 at 05:00 AM
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leventdal
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I can handle Turkish translation. Can anyone tell me which file to translate? (Is it for future releases?)
05-27-2003 at 08:53 PM
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ErikH2000
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leventdal wrote:
I can handle Turkish translation. Can anyone tell me which file to translate? (Is it for future releases?)
Thanks for the offer!

For translating DROD to Turkish, I am interested. But I have to be cautious about asking for your help, because it generates a fair amount of work for the Caravel team to add a new language to DROD, and asking for volunteer help with translation obliges us to do that work. It would be in very bad taste to not use translated text that we asked somebody to write.

After we've been through the steps needed to localize DROD to another language, we'll be in a better position to work with you (assuming you were still interested at that point). To give you an idea, here are some things that have to be done to make another language work:

- Translate the text by editing a specially-formatted unicode text file.
- Find one or more freely distributable TrueType fonts that display chars for the language and look good inside DROD in a range of sizes.
- Walk through all the screens and look for size errors. Fix areas of screen elements or change text so that everything displays correctly.
- Change main menu graphic to show new text.
- Create an installer to add support for the language to DROD.

At the least, we should be able to write a guide that describes what must be provided to localize DROD to a new language, so that people outside the Caravel team can easily add new languages.

-Erik

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05-27-2003 at 10:58 PM
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leventdal
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Thanks for the offer!

For translating DROD to Turkish, I am interested. But I have to be cautious about asking for your help, because it generates a fair amount of work for the Caravel team to add a new language to DROD, and asking for volunteer help with translation obliges us to do that work. It would be in very bad taste to not use translated text that we asked somebody to write.

After we've been through the steps needed to localize DROD to another language, we'll be in a better position to work with you (assuming you were still interested at that point). To give you an idea, here are some things that have to be done to make another language work:

- Translate the text by editing a specially-formatted unicode text file.
- Find one or more freely distributable TrueType fonts that display chars for the language and look good inside DROD in a range of sizes.
- Walk through all the screens and look for size errors. Fix areas of screen elements or change text so that everything displays correctly.
- Change main menu graphic to show new text.
- Create an installer to add support for the language to DROD.

At the least, we should be able to write a guide that describes what must be provided to localize DROD to a new language, so that people outside the Caravel team can easily add new languages.

-Erik

I have don a number of translations before and can imagine the amount of work but I have plenty of time for the moment.

I have very large font collection and part of it supports Turkish. Also I can edit those font files to support Turkish.

I can seek through all screens (probably a code to see levels without playing will be used)

I didn't understand the installer. Can you explain that?

Help file is not a problem afterall.
05-28-2003 at 10:21 AM
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ross
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Erik this sort of raises the question ..

We have all this Unicode support .. what about the actual fonts (.ttfs) ? How is DROD going to ship language specific fonts if tomnr.ttf does not support chars for a particular language ?
05-28-2003 at 10:53 AM
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ErikH2000
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ross wrote:
We have all this Unicode support .. what about the actual fonts (.ttfs) ? How is DROD going to ship language specific fonts if tomnr.ttf does not support chars for a particular language ?
Yes, we have to find other fonts for other character sets. They have to be freely distributable and look good. But other than that, I don't think it's a problem.

-Erik

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05-28-2003 at 04:21 PM
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ErikH2000
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leventdal wrote:
I have don a number of translations before and can imagine the amount of work but I have plenty of time for the moment.
I'm going to reply in a new topic. See "Turkish DROD".

-Erik

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05-29-2003 at 10:45 PM
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agaricus5
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leventdal wrote:
Sure

By the way Dungeon Roach means "Zindan Hamamböceği" in Turkish. (Zindan Hamambocegi)
Zindan=Dungeon

Thanks!

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05-31-2003 at 06:46 PM
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leroy00
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I've just gotten around to reading this thread. If there is still a need (and an interest) in having a german translation done, I would be willing (and I hope able :D). I can't say how long it would take, but the actual text translation shouldn't take very long. I've no idea about checking the text formats in the game, though.

leroy

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10-30-2003 at 09:32 AM
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agaricus5
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leroy00 wrote:
I've just gotten around to reading this thread. If there is still a need (and an interest) in having a german translation done, I would be willing (and I hope able :D). I can't say how long it would take, but the actual text translation shouldn't take very long. I've no idea about checking the text formats in the game, though.

leroy
I believe there is a need in getting the game translated into different languages for the benefit of foreign players, so if you want to translate it into German, then ask Erik about it, and I'm sure he'd be delighted to have your help.

However, I do not think there is an interest in, err... translating the game elements into as many different languages as possible - I believe the language barrier and change in meaning between words in different languages is putting people off. However, if you'd like to verify the translation of "Dungeon Roach" into German (this can be found at the start of the thread), then you'd be most welcome!

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10-30-2003 at 10:07 AM
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leroy00
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agaricus5 wrote:

I believe there is a need in getting the game translated into different languages for the benefit of foreign players, so if you want to translate it into German, then ask Erik about it, and I'm sure he'd be delighted to have your help.

However, I do not think there is an interest in, err... translating the game elements into as many different languages as possible - I believe the language barrier and change in meaning between words in different languages is putting people off. However, if you'd like to verify the translation of "Dungeon Roach" into German (this can be found at the start of the thread), then you'd be most welcome!

I'm not really sure I understand what you mean by translating the game without translating the elements. You'll have to clear me up on that. "Kuechenschabe" (btw: Kueche [Küche] = kitchen, Kuchen = cake, so more like "kitchen roach", since that's where they show up most; those two dots are sometimes very important in German!), and yeah, "Kakerlake" is what everyone says, "Schabe" sounds more formal, almost scientific. As far as I understand, there should be no language barrier if the translator is capable. :huh You know if Shakespeare can be translated into German, I suppose DROD can, as well. There isn't always a one-to-one translation, but that's what makes a good translator. Oscar Wilde said that translations are like women: "the pretty ones aren't faithful, and the faithful ones aren't pretty" (sorry if the wording is wrong, I'm translating it back from German).

My best attempt to translate "dungeon roach" would be "Riesenkakerlake" (giant roach), or maybe "fleischfressende Kakerlake" (man-eating roach). I'll let you know if I can think up a better translation.

leroy

And extra special just for you: fly agaric = "Fliegenpilz". In Germany it is common to gather wild mushrooms, and a couple of weeks ago was prime time. We saw a great deal of fly agaric (despite their bad reputation great to look at) and the "pearl mushroom" Amanita rubescens of the same family. Pretty tasty and up to 18 cm tall! (The pearl mushrooms, not the fly agarics.) Unfortunately the season was short because it quickly got too cold this year.

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10-30-2003 at 11:33 AM
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agaricus5
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leroy00 wrote:
I'm not really sure I understand what you mean by translating the game without translating the elements. You'll have to clear me up on that. "Kuechenschabe" (btw: Kueche [Küche] = kitchen, Kuchen = cake, so more like "kitchen roach", since that's where they show up most; those two dots are sometimes very important in German!), and yeah, "Kakerlake" is what everyone says, "Schabe" sounds more formal, almost scientific. As far as I understand, there should be no language barrier if the translator is capable. :huh You know if Shakespeare can be translated into German, I suppose DROD can, as well. There isn't always a one-to-one translation, but that's what makes a good translator. Oscar Wilde said that translations are like women: "the pretty ones aren't faithful, and the faithful ones aren't pretty" (sorry if the wording is wrong, I'm translating it back from German).
This is what I mean - translating literally causes quite a few problems when going to another language.

My best attempt to translate "dungeon roach" would be "Riesenkakerlake" (giant roach), or maybe "fleischfressende Kakerlake" (man-eating roach). I'll let you know if I can think up a better translation.
That's fine.

And extra special just for you...
Ooh, thank you very much :)

Fly agaric = "Fliegenpilz".
Hmm... I do remember my German Teacher saying something like that, although he wasn't sure if it was correct himself. Thanks for reminding me of it.

In Germany it is common to gather wild mushrooms, and a couple of weeks ago was prime time.
I am very jealous. :D

We saw a great deal of fly agaric (despite their bad reputation great to look at)...
Did you visit a Birch/Spruce forest then? - most Fly Agarics tend to form mycorrhizal relationships with Spruce or Birch trees and from what you said, it appears you did.

...and the "pearl mushroom" Amanita rubescens of the same family.
That's interesting. I know the mushroom as "The Blusher". What is it called in German?

Pretty tasty and up to 18 cm tall! (The pearl mushrooms, not the fly agarics.) Unfortunately the season was short because it quickly got too cold this year.
Cool!

However, (It's probably too late to tell you anyway, but...) do be careful not to confuse it with a similar fungus called "The Panther" or Amanita pantherina, which is very poisonous.

Oh, well... I suppose a little digression is allowable... :)

[Edited by agaricus5 on 10-30-2003 at 12:23 PM GMT]

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10-30-2003 at 12:22 PM
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Oneiromancer
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leroy00 wrote:
Oscar Wilde said that translations are like women: "the pretty ones aren't faithful, and the faithful ones aren't pretty" (sorry if the wording is wrong, I'm translating it back from German).

That sounds very Oscar Wilde-ish. I am sure you have it correct, or close enough.

Game on,

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10-30-2003 at 04:08 PM
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RubellaGolda
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Note 3: It doesn't appear that Dutch even has a word for "dungeon", though the word for "cockroach" appears to be "kakkerlak".

The dutch word for dungeon is "kerker", which makes a dungeon roach a "kerkerkakkerlak" which, I think is a great alliterating word :) , if a little unpronounceable :D

(Here it is common and valid to glue words together to form larger words, so in English you have dungeon roach (two words) whereas in Dutch you get to form a single new word, yay!)
12-03-2003 at 11:03 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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Hmm.....all these words sound sort of weird.

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12-03-2003 at 05:30 PM
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RubellaGolda
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:
Hmm.....all these words sound sort of weird.

That's because they are from different (weird, if you like) languages ;)
Or did you mean all words in this topic?

On a more serious note, I don't think that DROD needs to be translated to other languages; the game is simple enough to explain itself. You might miss some of the humor in the scrolls tough.
12-04-2003 at 09:21 AM
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