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Blondbeard
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Well... As some of you might remember I try to write a fantasy novel (I have been going on for ages, but will soon be finished). My girl friend has drawn some maps, and it just feels so nice to have something graphic to go with the book! They aren't done yet since citys needs to be marked, and names for rivers, mountains and citys shall be added, but you can still see the initial result.

Check it out, if you want to.
06-19-2008 at 10:26 PM
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Tuttle
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Cool! I love having maps like that on the inside cover of a book -- I'm the sort of person who actually flicks back to look up place names as they come up in the text.
06-19-2008 at 11:06 PM
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mrimer
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That's great! Yes, I like studying the maps too.

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06-20-2008 at 12:48 AM
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Elfstone
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I second Tuttle and these are impressive Blondbeard. :)

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06-20-2008 at 09:15 AM
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Pneh
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Nice! :smile

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06-20-2008 at 09:31 AM
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bflatjeff
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A good map is indeed a key necessity for any fantasy novel. Bad maps are a major turn-off.

BbJ

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06-23-2008 at 01:04 AM
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The Architest
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Mpas!
i love maps! :smile

but i hate maps when orienteering! :thumbsdown
06-23-2008 at 12:34 PM
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Jatopian
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Really? I'd hate to go orienteering without a map.

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06-23-2008 at 12:50 PM
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slimm tom
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I love maps! It reminds me of Lord of the Rings, which I read last year. I looked at the map every now and then to orient myself. The only annoying thing is that the map is usually at the start of the book. I would like it to be on a separate piece of paper, so I don't have to go to the first page every time I want to look something up.

Speaking of LotR, I think I'm going to watch the movies (which I own on DVD) next week when my vacation starts. (8 weeks full of sleeping 'till 12 o' clock, watching movies and lots of more fun stuff. :D )

P.S. : Tell me when it is released, I'd like to read it :)

[Last edited by slimm tom at 06-23-2008 07:04 PM]
06-23-2008 at 07:01 PM
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bflatjeff
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My elementary school's copies of the Lord of the Rings were hardbound, large size, and had large, fold-out maps attached to the endpages! They folded out to the size of four pages! I should have stolen them, but that would have been wrong. My own copies of LotR are well-read paperbacks that are falling apart. :(

BbJ

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06-25-2008 at 06:04 AM
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Blondbeard
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Update: Not complete yet, but now you can see the names of stuff :) What remains is to paste everything together, and explain all the symbols.

Oh, and the quality of the real maps is a bit better than this scanned image.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 06-25-2008 07:25 AM]
06-25-2008 at 07:24 AM
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Elfstone
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Blondbeard wrote:
What remains is to paste everything together, and explain all the symbols.
Is there going to be colour in the finished maps? I would respectfully suggest that at least a little colour would be beneficial.

bflatjeff wrote:
My own copies of LotR are well-read paperbacks that are falling apart. {/quote]
now that I can relate to :D I was given my copies eighty-s . . . . for my 21st Birthday and I have read from "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit" to " "Well I'm back," he said." every year since.

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06-25-2008 at 04:50 PM
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Samuel
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Really cool, i really liked the maps, i think once you get it finished it will be great.
Great Job

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06-27-2008 at 09:47 AM
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Znirk
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If I may pick a nit: Why do you use these jarringly different typefaces? Do they refer to different historical "layers"?
06-27-2008 at 02:56 PM
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Blondbeard
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The diferent typefaces are supposed to indicate diferent types of map items (it's suposed to be pedagocical). One for rivers, mountyains and lakes. One for cities and one for explanations (special places).

Don't you think that's a good idea. Nitpicks are of course welcome ;)

Oh, and Elfstone: I agree. Colours are nice, but that's kind of up to the printing company (if the book gets printed). There's no sense to add colours if that will turn printing companies off.

Personally I would love to have a coloured map, of course :) But I'll be oh so happy if the book gets printed at all. And translated. I really want it to get translated.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 06-27-2008 06:42 PM]
06-27-2008 at 06:41 PM
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bflatjeff
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I agree with Znirk: I'd stick with one typeface. Symbols are supposed to do the job of differentiating map elements, think of dots or stars for cities and capitals, the large ^ for mountains, etc. River names are written along their courses. Names of large bodies of water are printed within them. I'd find one readable typeface you like and stick with that, possibly allowing different type sizes (if you need to differentiate between country and smaller province/area names, for instance), maybe italics if you need it. Just like you say printers and publishers might be turned off by injudicious use of color, multiple typefaces also might be jarring.

Hope that helps,
BbJ

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06-28-2008 at 04:46 AM
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Znirk
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Blondbeard wrote:Don't you think that's a good idea.

It can be made to work, but I don't think these specific three choices should ever appear on the same page ;)

The Large Areas one is kind of a Decaffeinated Gothic Minuscule, with a definite nod to the 16th Century or so. Not that it's bad in itself, but it doesn't really go with the Rivers and Features one -- this is more of an engraveably formal pseudo-handwriting as you might find on certificates from the 18th to 21st C.

As for the Place Names ... well, that one is bad in itself. For instance, look at the huge swash on the lower arm of the capital K (first page bottom "K ehlan", second page top "K arest"), which seriously interferes with the spacing. And even if it were a technically better font, it's yet another completely different style; something like a less formal version of Rivers-and-Features, but scrawled with a ballpoint.

In other words, I'm going to agree right back at bflatjeff here: Mixing typefaces is hard. Better to choose one (ideally one which has different styles like Regular and Italic designed right in), and work with those and with size variation and (for rivers/coasts/mountain ranges) orientation.

To help you choose: Do you want the map to reflect the technology available in your world, i.e. is it supposed to be a map from, or just a map of? Or do you perhaps have a narrator from a specific culture/time period, like e.g. Tolkien's early 20th C. "translation and edition of old sources"?
06-28-2008 at 08:11 AM
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Blondbeard
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Znirk wrote:
Blondbeard wrote:Don't you think that's a good idea.

It can be made to work, but I don't think these specific three choices should ever appear on the same page ;)

The Large Areas one is kind of a Decaffeinated Gothic Minuscule, with a definite nod to the 16th Century or so. Not that it's bad in itself, but it doesn't really go with the Rivers and Features one -- this is more of an engraveably formal pseudo-handwriting as you might find on certificates from the 18th to 21st C.

As for the Place Names ... well, that one is bad in itself. For instance, look at the huge swash on the lower arm of the capital K (first page bottom "K ehlan", second page top "K arest"), which seriously interferes with the spacing. And even if it were a technically better font, it's yet another completely different style; something like a less formal version of Rivers-and-Features, but scrawled with a ballpoint.

In other words, I'm going to agree right back at bflatjeff here: Mixing typefaces is hard. Better to choose one (ideally one which has different styles like Regular and Italic designed right in), and work with those and with size variation and (for rivers/coasts/mountain ranges) orientation.

To help you choose: Do you want the map to reflect the technology available in your world, i.e. is it supposed to be a map from, or just a map of? Or do you perhaps have a narrator from a specific culture/time period, like e.g. Tolkien's early 20th C. "translation and edition of old sources"?

I actually agree quite a bit. Especially the "K thing" about cities. But I don't want to get too pedantic either. Firstly I don't posses your historical knowledge of typefaces. If it where me doing the work I would happily work with every scrap of feedback I got, but since it is my girlfriend doing the work I don't want to terrorise her too much she has already made a much larger time commitment than she originally intended, and I don't want to push her anymore than necessary. On the other hand: If the book gets published I will definitely look into the map some more. Hmm... My girlfriend is with me right now. We will think about it, since you raise some valid points.

And about the choosing: I'm the first person to agree that I leave much to be desired when it comes to aesthetics. I don't really know what I want. I just want the map to feel exiting and good for my potential readers. What would you recommend?

Edit: Oh, and thanks! I really apreciate you taking your time to give me tips. My girlfriend says that we can change it so that everything except the country names (the large letters) should be like the river/lake/mountin names (like Lothan, Marmorbergen etc.). Would that be a good idea? Or should we change it so that everything has the same typeface as the country names. I guess the last alternative would be what you would recomand.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 06-28-2008 09:04 AM]
06-28-2008 at 08:45 AM
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b0rsuk spends day after day with nautical charts.

This page has some very interesting maps. Good source of inspiration.

http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/

Some of my favourites:

http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/292-china-as-an-island/
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/12/04/214-the-blonde-map-of-europe/
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/12/04/213-pangaea-ultima-climbing-the-mediterrranean-mountains/
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/11/18/204-one-ring-to-rule-them-all-mate/

http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/190-world-wide-web-map-from-ad-to-za/
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/186-europe-if-the-nazis-had-won/
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/185-the-doctorspatients-map-of-the-world/
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/164-a-cats-map-of-the-bed/



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06-28-2008 at 07:45 PM
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Znirk
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Blondbeard wrote:
On the other hand: If the book gets published I will definitely look into the map some more.
I suspect you wouldn't need to -- publishers tend to employ graphic designers, who get paid decent salaries to worry about that sort of thing so you don't have to.

Blondbeard wrote:
we can change it so that everything except the country names (the large letters) should be like the river/lake/mountin names (like Lothan, Marmorbergen etc.). Would that be a good idea?

I'd call it an improvement, yes. (Of course, since you've got a volunteer doing the actual work, I'd also suggest aiming for "good enough" rather than "perfect".)

About the choosing/historical/etc. stuff: My point was: Is there a particular reason why you need to use these hard-to-combine "old" lettering styles? The alternative I'm suggesting is to say "This is the author's reconstructed-from-sources 2008 edition map of a 'historical territory'", and to use a modern, readability-focused typeface, perhaps with designed-in italics and bold styles for different feature types, instead.

But again, you have to decide if the likely result of any change is worth the time invested -- and since it's not your own time we're talking about, I won't try to push you.
06-29-2008 at 11:49 AM
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Blondbeard
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At long last I have another version to show. This one is very close to what we will call a "finished" map. It is unfortunate that you can see some pieces of transparent tape in the lower map (the overview-map). We will have to do something about that.

Other than that I think it looks nice, and I hope you guys do to :)
07-10-2008 at 07:11 AM
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