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Snacko
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I recently picked up Persona 3 FES and I realized two things after playing for 4 hours straight:
1) This massive a game means I can not prepare a review at this time nor will I be likely to for a few months (or days, feel free to look at the bottom of the topic for the conclusion).
2) The game is incredible enough to deserve a write-up anyway.

The Megami Tensei series has been lauded in both Japan and in the United States for its dark, mature themes, fascinating stories, unique settings and deep, expansive gameplay functions.

The Persona series may be the most interesting Megaten spin off. Though the idea of high school students fighting demons may seem an overly anime inspired idea, the series has always managed to transform the concept into interesting, relevant stories, and Persona 3 does the absolute best job of this I've ever seen.

The problem with the idea of injecting strong story elements into an old-fashioned dungeon crawl is that at some point or another the story will come to a grinding halt and the way Persona 3 gets around this is one of the most interesting aspects of the game and the way it is integrated into the story is fascinating.

The story revolves around a character (named by you) who has been newly transferred into a new high school in Japan. The story is completely separate from 1 and the two installments of 2. He rides the subway to the school in what is quite possibly the most memorable opening cutscene in gaming history, quickly alternating between surprisingly lucid views of city life and what appears to be a girl, very scared, attempting to work up the nerve to shoot herself in the head.

When the main character arrives everything is a bit...off. The streets are empty, the lights aren't working and, upon his arrival, he is asked to sign a contract saying that he is liable for the choices he makes and the impacts they have on the world. When he wanders further into the dorm, he encounters two young girls, one of which is the girl seen earlier, still with the gun in her hand. Oh, and there are weird glowing coffins everywhere in the city.

It takes a long time until you have any degree of control of your character or the world around him after this, about an hour and a half simply involves the character getting settled into school. The game picks up and kicks into high gear when it is revealed that there is a hidden hour between 11:59 and midnight and that the average person spends this time in a coffin completely oblivious to the hour and that strange monsters called Shadows roam the Earth searching for souls to feast on who have failed to do this. Somehow the game reveals this without making it sound completely idiotic.

Your dorm room turns out to be the center for an extracurricular group of people who have the "potential". This potential not only occurs in people who cannot enter the coffins (and thus experience the hour, known as the "Dark Hour"), but also refers to the ability to use their personality to construct a Persona to fight the Shadows. The group, who has finally gotten a good amount of Persona users now believes it is time to explore Tartarus, a gigantic tower that the school transforms into during the Dark Hour and the group believes to hold the purpose of the Dark Hour and how to stop the Shadow.

The meat of the gameplay can be divided into two parts, in Tartarus and out. While you're in Tartarus you explore randomly generated dungeons in search of stairs up to the next floor fighting Shadow and finding loot. Every floor has a warp back to the entrance and every five floors is a boss and a checkpoint. The battles sidestep the downfalls of the generally flawed jRPG battle system (if you aren't familiar with it, think a turn based strategy game without movement or strategy) by making you use enemy weaknesses and your various Personas carefully and strategically.

Every time you get a critical hit or hit an enemy with a type of attack it is weak against, it will be stunned and the attacker is allowed another move. Enemies remain stunned until it is their turn, so if you manage your Personas very carefully (you can change your Persona once in the course of battle) and use exactly the right attacks, you can stun every enemy on the field (note that you cannot stun a stunned enemy). This allows you to use an All-Out Attack where your party dashes in to the center of the battlefield and attacks all the enemies at once in a knock-down, drag-out brawl.

After a battle, you can choose one from a number of cards. This card can represent many things such as money, weapons or even new Personas. If you have multiple Persona cards, you can head through a door apparently only you can see to a place called the velvet room. In the velvet room there is a man named Igor (and his assistant who becomes more important later) who can fuse together different Personas to create new ones. Occasionally he'll screw up and you'll end up with a completely different Persona than intended which can be a positive or a negative. You can only have one of each type of Persona card meaning that if you're a completionist, you may gladly spend 100s of hours just getting everything and leveling it to the max.

Progress so far seems to have an interesting element: at least near the beginning of the game it doesn't revolve around Tartarus. It seems that you fight a boss once a month during the full moon that releases the next barrier in Tartarus, but if you grind enough you can defeat the boss without actually getting to the barrier. The main motivation for completing the so called "Block" (the area between barriers) on time is that bringing the hidden documents to Elizabeth (a human-like woman who resides in the Velvet Room and hands out Side Quests through a bulletin-board like request system) completes a quest for a very lucrative reward. During the "Full Moon" phase at least, the story seems fairly independent of the actual dungeon (though the plot revolves so thoroughly around Tartarus, I'm sure this will change).

You can't go to Tartarus every day; people become fatigued far more quickly during the Dark Hour and if you're spending that time saving the world, you'll become exhausted in a hurry. This leads to the other, equally important facet of the game.

Outside of Tartarus, during the other 24 hours of the day, you will experience life at the boarding school. You will attend classes, participate in extracurricular activities and hang out with friends. As you make social bonds with your classmates/participate in out of school activities you will increase the power of that Social Link. Because your Persona is a direct extension of your personality, your social life will obviously affect the power of your various Personas. Each Social Link powers up a specific Persona. Social Links can power up by completing Side Quests but are only put into affect when you fuse new Personas, Links do not affect Personas you already have. I'm not 100% sure how expansive this is, but it seems that there is one for every activity and every friend.

This is also how the story keeps moving along even when you are periodically grinding your way through Tartarus, the school lets the story come through as it is on a calendar basis. There are plenty of holidays, pop quizzes, stat-building activities (similar to a dating sim) and scripted events to make this less confrontational part of the game just as exciting as Tartarus.

I haven't delved into the new content in the FES "director's cut" (Persona 3 FEStival) edition, but from what I've gathered it is clearly the superior version.
$30 retail price
The original Persona 3 game (The Journey mode)
Hard Mode
New Personas
New Links
New Fusion Spells
An additional epilogue with a new main character reported to be over 30 hours long (The Answer mode)
Connectivity with original Persona 3 data allowing you to carry over things such as old Fusion Spells.

It is also worth noting that to draw players who completed the original to buy this update, The Answer mode is available from the start.

I generally dislike jRPGs. I believe the stories are generally either overly convoluted or incredibly shallow and uninteresting, the battles are boring and too frequent, the pacing is too often far too slow and they generally sacrifice gameplay for story or vice-versa, but then again, Shin Megami Tensei has never been about doing things like everyone else.

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[Last edited by Snacko at 02-24-2009 09:52 PM]
06-12-2008 at 09:35 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: Persona 3 FES-First Thoughts (0)  
This is just available for the PS2, right? No PC version?

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06-12-2008 at 02:50 PM
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Snacko
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icon Re: Persona 3 FES-First Thoughts (0)  
Correct, sadly.

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06-12-2008 at 03:59 PM
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icon Re: Persona 3 FES-First Thoughts (0)  
Hmmm... this has been on my "Rent if you ever get around to it" list but after that description I think it'll have to be bumped up to the "Rent after I'm done with my current games" list. Thanks for the review Snacko!
06-12-2008 at 05:19 PM
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Snacko
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icon Re: Persona 3 FES-First Thoughts (0)  
Some more info:
The story seems to be fairly concentrated around the full moons, this is a flaw as it kills the pacing to some point by literally giving you 30 days between each critical story battle to simply grind. It's not as bad as it sounds (as your grinding has a clear goal, to get higher and this has you working on the ultimate goal of the game).

The fusion system is VERY similar to that of past Shin Megami Tensei games. The main differences are that Personas are all attached to characters (they do not fight on their own), you cannot change your allies' Personas (in the main series you customize your party completely by summoning demons, this was later simplified and "cutified" in the series' spiritual successor, Pokemon). Easily the biggest difference is how minions are acquired, rather than speaking to demons and recruiting them, Personas are acquired by finding cards that apparently represent facets of your personality after battles. It is easier and fits with the darker theme.

New in FES are weapon fusions. There seems to be a theme in the Shin Megami Tensei games that any antiques shops must be very, very strange; in the mall's antique shop you can infuse weapons with Personas to create a new one. If your social links are powerful enough, this can let you get some extremely powerful weapons.

I must say how impressed I am with the friendly AI in this game. Though I've played many games in the series, this is the first Persona I've played and, though you can not directly control your allies you can set loose guidelines your allies will adhere to. They will follow some impressive scripts, for example if you set the command to "knock down" they will mimic weaknesses they have seen work even if the enemy is not analyzed.

Dante is not in the game, sorry, maybe in SMT4.

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[Last edited by Snacko at 06-15-2008 01:23 AM]
06-15-2008 at 12:28 AM
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Just as relevant info because I feel it should be here:

Persona 1 and 2 did not have auto-playing party members, the way that P3 has. Both of the earlier games in the series had all the party members be player-controlled, along with having all the characters capable of using all Personae. And while they *did* have the moon phases do things, the moon changes phases *really* fast, on par with the speed you see the moon change at in other SMT games than P3.

Unfortunately, both of them were gimped in the US releases. P1 had all the post-game content translated but failed to have the event that triggers a player being able to *enter* the post-game stuff active in the game, requiring a Gameshark to be used to get to it. The first half of P2 never came out due to, apparently, Hitler being in it. So our getting P3:FES is actually pretty lucky, given that this is the sort of special-edition re-release that bigger, more financially secure companies like SquareEnix never seem to want to do in the US.

Also, Dante was only in the director's cut version of Nocturne (we never got the original version in the US), and isn't *really* even necessary to the plotline. And probably won't be in any further SMT games. I think he was just a shout-out from the director.

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06-16-2008 at 07:32 AM
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Snacko
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Yeah, the Dante thing was a joke as that was what got a lot of Americans and Europeans into the series.

It's a shame about Persona 1 and Innocent Sin, right now both are getting fan translations which, if you are lucky enough to find the original disks (as you should NEVER download illegal ISOs) means it is time to break out the emulator.

It is also worth noting that P1's translation is TERRIBLE. A lot of dialog was cut and even more doesn't make sense. also, for Innocent Sin the more accepted theory is that it portrayed an optional homosexual relationship.

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06-16-2008 at 06:03 PM
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Hmm. I'd honestly never heard of the homosexual relationship, but there's a track record in the US of games having Hitler removed before they're released to the public.

In any case, the fact still stands that P2:IS never came out in the US. Boooooo on Atlus (actually, probably Boooooo on Sony) for that.

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06-16-2008 at 07:20 PM
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Snacko
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Alright, time for a conclusion:

Shin Megami Tensei has always been aimed at hardcore RPG players. After releasing the two Megami Tensei titles for the MSX and Famicom Computer System, Atlas knew that straying from the formula that Dragon Quest, Ultima and Final Fantasy set down was a good idea evidenced by Atlas's decision to keep the Megami Tensei moniker and adding a "Shin" (Japanese for new, literally "neo") in front of the title to show that they were rebooting the series.

It is perhaps a testament to how big a step Shin Megami Tensei was that after going back to play it and adjusting to its quirks, it is still an extraordinary and unique series. The one goal that the series has always strove for was to capture the imaginations and time of RPG gamers. With Final Fantasy going towards more narrative styles, what could be better for a hardcore fan of the genre than convincing an enemy to join their party only to endlessly distill said party through fusion? What could be more enticing than the ability to make a new party and make it stronger the more time you put into it? What could be more satisfying that finding that your party is completely overpowered as you enter a new area?

Even with the solid gameplay systems, Atlas managed to wrap a solid storyline around it touching on serious themes such as the Gulf War and the need for the balance of law and chaos?

Persona 3 feels, in some ways, a step back from the serious story and endlessly deep gameplay options at first, but in time the story is revealed to be just as dark as its predecessors despite the much lighter setting and the lesser party customization pays off with faster, more strategic battles. The battles run so much faster than they did on the SNES that you will find yourself willingly allowing yourself to be pulled into them, and this leads me to my next point: Persona 3 is a complete and total grind-fest.

The one dungeon in Persona 3 is akin to the dungeons of games like Shining in the Darkness and Evolution; you'll spend most of your time in them and your goal is to fight. The bosses that guard the checkpoints of Tartarus are powerful and you likely won't be strong enough to defeat them when you first reach them. You'll need to go through the floors you just climbed up multiple times just in hopes of leveling up enough. The saving grace to this system is that the enemies are so much more powerful than your average RPG enemy and that you have so many tricks up your sleeve while fighting them. Blindly attacking will usually lead to death on even the normal enemies. You must plan your party, manage your team mates' behavior commands and have a balanced list of Personae in store. You are so pivotal to executing your plan that your personal available Personae are just as important as managing a team of demons in past games; the fact that your teammates are more limited in this respect simply becomes another factor.

The new content in the FES edition isn't anything to scoff at either. Not only do you have over 30 new Personae, about double the amount of Elizabeth's Requests, new dialogue, new enemies, bug fixes and new difficulty modes, you have a whole new epilogue to play through starring the shadow hunting weapon Aigis. Aigis isn't nearly as interesting a character as the main character and I've heard that the story in the new chapter isn't as good as the one in the old one, but there is plenty of new gameplay with new features, costumes and more.

Persona 3 is a grind-fest, but it is a very good grind-fest. If the past sentence is not an oxymoron for you, I wholeheartedly recommend this whether you've fused Lucifer, don't know the difference between an Agilao and a Mabufu or have even attended Gekkoukan High before, you won't be disappointed.

Meanwhile, I'll keep climbing that tower, if only to find out what lays in wait at the top...

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[Last edited by Snacko at 06-17-2008 04:52 AM]
06-17-2008 at 04:13 AM
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Actually, while I hear that the expansion portion of FES (The Answer) is pretty grindy, the main game isn't. Or at least isn't conventionally so. Your progress in the dungeon will hit roadblocks that only clear on story events (full moons, mostly). You can only fight for so long on any given evening, at least without exhausting yourself and radically reducing your combat effectiveness. And you stop getting meaningful exp from a given dungeon section fairly swiftly, so you can't really grind for levels. In practice I find that the game encourages you to battle your way up to an elevator point, quit for the evening, go back a few days later to clear the boss, and then ignore Tartarus altogether until the next story event. Maybe go back once or twice if you didn't clear all of the "requests" that you're looking to finish. This means that while the social-networking end of the game doesn't actually take very long for any given game day, it's still easily 50% of play time.
06-19-2008 at 07:22 AM
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Snacko
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After only a very little bit it takes hours and hours for your characters to get tired, furthermore there are many points in the game where your characters never get tired.

As for the roadblocks, the grinding isn't just to get higher in Tartarus, bosses are incredibly powerful by modern RPG standards and necessitate grinding levels. Furthermore the barriers are only a factor at all on the very first playthrough.

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[Last edited by Snacko at 06-19-2008 09:31 PM]
06-19-2008 at 09:30 PM
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malkav11
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Snacko wrote:
After only a very little bit it takes hours and hours for your characters to get tired, furthermore there are many points in the game where your characters never get tired.

As for the roadblocks, the grinding isn't just to get higher in Tartarus, bosses are incredibly powerful by modern RPG standards and necessitate grinding levels. Furthermore the barriers are only a factor at all on the very first playthrough.

Maybe on later playthroughs. You really can't successfully grind levels, in my (admittedly limited) experience. After only a couple, the exp progress slows to a crawl and you have to wait for the next section with its more challenging foes. I've been several levels under every boss so far, and although they've been hard, proper preparation in terms of Personas and gear has been far more important than raw level.
06-19-2008 at 11:05 PM
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Snacko
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With higher level wands grinding is possible even with easier enemies.

Also note that grinding Social Links isn't any less of a grind than Tartarus is.

But you are right, P3 does a number of things to discourage old-fashioned grinding and, due to the Press Turn system combined with how suddenly enemies power up on new blocks the "grinding" is more like the grinding in Disgaea: get as powerful as you possibly can as quickly as possible by taking advantage of the game's system at every turn (the Fusion System follows the same principle to a lesser degree).

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[Last edited by Snacko at 06-20-2008 04:27 AM : Changed paragraph order to maintain flow.]
06-19-2008 at 11:17 PM
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So I got Persona 3 (original; FES wasn't released in Europe) yesterday.

The first hour and a half seems pretty awesome so far. It's pretty uncommon for me to actually start playing games that have an intro longer than 30 minutes or so but Persona 3 does it nearly perfectly.
06-21-2008 at 01:16 PM
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Snacko
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Argh! The Candelabrum's flames beckon me to my death.

Damn you matador!

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[Last edited by Snacko at 06-24-2008 05:44 PM : Fixed an obvious misspelling that came from what I thought was an obvious misspelling.]
06-24-2008 at 04:36 AM
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Snacko wrote:
Argh! The Candelabrum's flames beckon me to my death.

Damn you matador!

Uh, that ain't Persona 3, Snacko. ;)

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06-24-2008 at 09:27 PM
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Yeah, but I didn't want to make a new topic for it and it sounded confusing enough to be worth posting.

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06-25-2008 at 09:47 PM
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I know I'm necrobumping this topic, but I really couldn't think of a better place to put it.

The first Persona 2 has received a fan translation. I know this is old news, but I just ripped the disk and applied the patch. It starts off slow (and not in the good P3/4 way, I mean like going into every single room in your school in order to smash wall clocks slow), but picks up soon and has a potential.

The story, reminiscent of Revelations: Persona, really gets started with a Ouiji Board style ceremony. Calling your own number summons a being known as the Joker (WARNING: doing this in real life connects you to your voicemail) who grants your dearest wish, but if you choose the wrong one, well, I don't think it's explained but the camera is descent enough to turn away whenever it happens.

The Joker, when summoned by two opposing gang leaders makes it clear that he has a grudge against player character Tatsuya, revenge for an event Tatsuya does not remember.

Perhaps the Joker's existence is simply a consequence of another strange occurrence: prominent rumors quickly become the truth. Though this is an interesting story element, it really shines in gameplay. There are hundreds of rumors you can spread with the help of a detective agency (and you can't do it all in one playthrough). These rumors can turn otherwise useless shops into places that sell rare weapons, make quest filled islands appear out of nowhere and just generally allows you to manipulate the fabric of reality to your red haired gang leader's will.

The fusion system is different than the main series (and thus the P3/4 series), relying on trading in a number of tarot cards to Igor.

Persona 2: Tsumi is often considered one the great PS1 RPGs (a system that was no slouch when it came to fantastic RPGs). It is also a landmark for the series, it was the first half of the final chapter in the Persona saga, was perhaps the first SMT game to include abundant side quests (even the later Nocturne had little in the way of actual quests, it was more about chasing rare fusions and buffing your party) and was the first SMT to play primarily from a typical top-down view (P1 DID have some top-down sections, but most dungeons were first person) and now it's available in English.

Look through the news to discover a story of the extreme immaturity of a translating genius, but the game is so good its worth supporting this idiot.

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02-24-2009 at 06:18 AM
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Another necrobump, I know, but I promised to post my thoughts of the latter half of the game years ago. Now, after finishing school, I've finally had time to go back and get further.

It's like a different game. Everything has come together for a chilling back 9. The story takes way too long to pick up, but is intensely worthwhile once it does. The combat gets deeper and more satisfying as the available options increase, and the subtle changes in the game's world are fully felt due to the small number of areas available. The rigidity of the structure finally paid off: earlier the game celebrated small moments: a dying boy finds comfort in a friend and in his art, a little girl accepts her parent's drifting apart, an old couple make their son's senseless death meaningful to a new generation. Because Persona 3 is a game that progresses day by day, the routine can be shaken, and when the world is threatened, it means something because the world is more than the threat. A majority of Persona 3 is not related to the group of teenagers at the center of its story, but finally it means something.

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