jbluestein
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It used to be that when an unsworded mimic was instructed to move in a direction that it was blocked in, it would not move and would not change direction.

Now (as of 3.2), an unsworded mimic will always turn to face whatever direction Beethro moves in.

This seems like an unintentional change to me...

Josh

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calamarain
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Does this apply if the mimic is on oremites? Or just when it's disarmed?

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[Last edited by calamarain at 05-15-2008 06:00 PM]

Rheb
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calamarain wrote:
Does this apply if the mimic is on oremites? Or just when it's disarmed?

I think that if they're swordless they will always turn in the direction the player is moving.

Edit: I just tested it, and it seen like a swordless mimic will always turn in the direction the player is moving, no matter if the player is swordless or not.

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[Last edited by Rheb at 05-15-2008 06:12 PM]

Jatopian
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I see nothing bad about this change, and it seems intuitive to me, unless it also happens when the player has a weapon.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 05-15-2008 07:06 PM]

Rheb
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Jatopian wrote:
I see nothing bad about this change, and it seems intuitive to me, unless it also happens when the player has a weapon.

It does, but I don't see why that should effect the mimics.

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jbluestein
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Jatopian wrote:
I see nothing bad about this change, and it seems intuitive to me, unless it also happens when the player has a weapon.

It's 'bad' because it's a change in existing behavior. I don't think I would have to look too far to find a published hold which 3.2 breaks because of this change.

I think it's also slightly less interesting, from a puzzle standpoint.

Jsoh

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jbluestein
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Just to further note: This change breaks at least two holds in beta right now. I haven't found any others yet, but I haven't really looked all that hard.

Josh

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mrimer
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At first, I thought that I had intentionally made this change (with TFMurphy's help?), but now I can't find it when searching old bug posts. I can't anything more conclusive at this point.

____________________________
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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
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And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 05-18-2008 04:52 PM]

TFMurphy
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The original thread: http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=18013
The second discussion: http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=19998

In summary, it was inserted as part of a group of related changes.

The most concerning thing would be hold breakage: if there's TCB Holds that are broken by this, then identifying them would be useful.

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[Last edited by TFMurphy at 05-18-2008 05:36 PM]

Rheb
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Well, for the record, I'm also against this change. I didn't see anything bad with the old behaviour, and, I don't really see anything bad with the new behaviour either. Except that it's been working the same way for over a year now. I really don't see the point of the change, and it angers me because it brakes several of my new rooms.

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Rheb
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Ok, this must definitely be a bug. Mimics never move if a player bumps an obstacle or something like that. How come they turn in the direction the player bumps if they for any reason are swordless. (Still no mater if the player is swordless or not.)

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mrimer
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No, these aren't bugs. I'm sorry to hear you're angry about the changes, but they've been in the latest patches for more than six months now, which is a longer time frame than mimics behaved any other way when swordless. I don't know what else can be done to notify players about changes besides posting about them in the relevant threads as they are implemented.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 05-20-2008 04:10 PM]

Rheb
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mrimer wrote:
No, these aren't bugs. I'm sorry to hear you're angry about the changes, but they've been in the latest patches for more than six months now, which is a longer time frame than mimics behaved any other way when swordless. I don't know what else can be done to notify players about changes besides posting about them in the relevant threads as they are implemented.

Ok, I’m sorry I keep going on about this thing, it doesn’t really mater that much to me, since most of the rooms I had made that broke because of the change was in a tutorial hold about this behaviour

But I’d really like to know why you actually did this change. One thing I really will miss from the old behaviour is the possibility to (without scripting) make an orb look that makes it impossible for the player to turn in a room where the player sometimes is swordless. That really had a huge puzzle potential.

Edit: In my previous post I only meant the "mimics turn in the direction the player bumps" behaviour. I can't see how that can be intended...

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[Last edited by Rheb at 05-20-2008 05:02 PM]

Blondbeard
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Having played some of the broken rooms I too wonder why this change was introduced. There's definitly puzzle potential in the way things worked before, and they felt kind of logical too. No need to answer if you are buisy, but I'd like to place a slight reservation against this change

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 05-23-2008 05:26 PM]

mrimer
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Blondbeard wrote:
Having played some of the broken rooms I too wonder why this change was introduced. There's definitly puzzle potential in the way things worked before, and they felt kind of logical too. No need to answer if you are buisy, but I'd like to place a slight reservation against this change

Sure, I hear you, but it would be unfair for me to change things at this point because some people object. We have spent a large amount of time and effort on the forum over several months with many testers in order to iron out bugs and fix incomplete game logic in 3.1. Frankly, the time is long past to express reservation. Reservations were in order when this change was made six months ago. I don't know how else to say this: if you're interested in fixes to game logic being made in a major patch, then you need to voice your reservations during the several beta builds that get released, preferably on the threads dealing specifically with these changes being made. Waiting in silence for the beta cyle to complete -- and then, following that, waiting silently for a release candidate to be selected as an official release -- and then, following that, choosing a moment a couple weeks later to voice objections to the way things have been working all through the 3.2 beta simply has a very low probability of success in changing the new status quo.

Sorry, again, but that's what all of these beta builds are there for. I understand if people don't want to apply a potentially unstable patch, but there's always the option of installing a second beta installation on your computer to test out changes that seem import to you. Or, if that's too much, you can browse through the bug fix threads at your leisure while we're working our way through the new beta cycle. If you can think of any other ideas, I have an open mind to making things better for everyone in the future.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 05-24-2008 07:34 AM]

Blondbeard
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By "slight reservation" I didn't really mean that you should change it. All I meant was: "Hey, that was some (IMO) cool puzzle potetial that was removed." I think feedback can serve a purpose even if nothing gets changed due to it. Hmm... Part of the problem here can be that maybe you didn't know that puzzle potential got removed. At least it isn't descussed (as far as I can see).

Hmm... Anyway... I don't want to come off as complaining, so I'll just add how greatful I am for the dedication and time spent in fixing every bug that pops up.

mrimer
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Thanks, Blondbeard. I'm not upset, and I do appreciate your feedback. Thanks again.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.