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Tuttle
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icon Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (+4)  
Maybe it's just me, but I get the feeling there's been a whole bunch more wrong-topic Hints and Solutions posting recently, where people can't see a secret room on the map and so post in another room's thread, make a new thread which links to an image of the wrong room or just make a new thread somewhere else.

If it's not already on there, I'd like to add to Schik's to-do list a "show secrets" button on the H&S search page which replaces the map with a copy that has all secrets revealed. This would allow everyone to post in the correct threads for secret rooms regardless of whether they have CaravelNet and have all their scores uploaded, but it wouldn't reveal any new info to people who don't want the secrets spoiled.

I know that Schik's a busy guy, and this has to come way below things like fixing the spider, but I reckon it would be good to have on there at some point.
02-19-2008 at 12:32 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
Ooh! Good suggestion. Seconded. A related suggestion would be to do away with the "Allow Viewing Only If Visited" option at the same time.
02-19-2008 at 12:48 AM
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mrimer
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icon (+1)  
I'll post another CaravelNet-related request here:

Have the CaravelNet Downloads section of the downloads page show up at the top of the page instead of the bottom. So many people seem to not notice they can scroll the page down to find their download (for whatever reason).

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02-19-2008 at 12:50 AM
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Mattcrampy
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
I'm going to go further and suggest that it should be in a specially formatted block, so it's clear that it's there in addition to all of the normal stuff because you are logged in.

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02-19-2008 at 03:20 AM
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Schik
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (+1)  
mrimer wrote:
I'll post another CaravelNet-related request here:

Have the CaravelNet Downloads section of the downloads page show up at the top of the page instead of the bottom. So many people seem to not notice they can scroll the page down to find their download (for whatever reason).
Sure. Done.

As for the original request... I'm not sure that we want to just give away the location of all secret rooms like that. If we did that, we might as well add a "show me where the secrets are" option in-game. I guess I'd have to think about it.

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02-19-2008 at 03:23 AM
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
Schik wrote:
mrimer wrote:
I'll post another CaravelNet-related request here:

Have the CaravelNet Downloads section of the downloads page show up at the top of the page instead of the bottom. So many people seem to not notice they can scroll the page down to find their download (for whatever reason).
Sure. Done.

As for the original request... I'm not sure that we want to just give away the location of all secret rooms like that. If we did that, we might as well add a "show me where the secrets are" option in-game. I guess I'd have to think about it.

Not quite. Besides, if you are going to H+S for help with a secret room, either you need to know where it is, in which case showing the secret is an automated hint, or you need help with that room, in which case NOT showing the secret is a real pain, not only for the person looking for the hint but also for the rest of us, and a stupid design decision.

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02-19-2008 at 03:32 AM
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Tim
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (+1)  
mrimer wrote:
I'll post another CaravelNet-related request here:

Have the CaravelNet Downloads section of the downloads page show up at the top of the page instead of the bottom. So many people seem to not notice they can scroll the page down to find their download (for whatever reason).
Can I ask for a further (small) enhancement of that page?

Is it possible to put some text on the top of the page like:

"You are currently not logged in." or
"You are currently logged in as 'Tim'." or
"You are currently logged in as 'Tim', but you don't have a CaravelNet subscription."

My guess is that this would solve most of the requests you are having right now.

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02-19-2008 at 04:19 AM
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Tuttle
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (+1)  
Schik wrote:
As for the original request... I'm not sure that we want to just give away the location of all secret rooms like that. If we did that, we might as well add a "show me where the secrets are" option in-game. I guess I'd have to think about it.
I thought about that, but I guess I don't really see it as a big issue -- the forum already allows "Hold : Level :" searches which give away the location of many secrets in non-brand-new holds if you scroll through the results, and unofficially there's also a graphical mod and the ability to just ask in a hold's thread. In other words, for people who want to find out where the secrets are without spending a bunch of time in-game, there are already options.

The more important consideration IMO is whether the change would force new information on people who want to hunt for secrets the traditional way, and on that test there's no problem -- for people who don't click on the button, nothing changes.
02-19-2008 at 08:02 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (+1)  
But what if one doesn't want to be spoiled on the secrets not found yet, but needs help with one found? For this even a "Show All" button would be a spoiler.
Instead, I think one should be able to manually enter the coordinates of the room one needs help with. That will mostly rule out guessing and and prevent accidental spoilage entirely, but allow one to ask for help on rooms one knows exist.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 02-19-2008 10:46 PM]
02-19-2008 at 10:45 PM
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Mr. Slice
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
What about it will show the coordinates of the room if you've completed the level that it is on?

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02-19-2008 at 10:59 PM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
Mr. Slice wrote:
What about it will show the coordinates of the room if you've completed the level that it is on?
If the server knows that, this is all a non-issue anyway.

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02-19-2008 at 11:23 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
Jatopian wrote:
Instead, I think one should be able to manually enter the coordinates of the room one needs help with.
I like this idea a lot. Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to implement :)
02-19-2008 at 11:26 PM
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Syntax
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Jatopian wrote:
Mr. Slice wrote:
What about it will show the coordinates of the room if you've completed the level that it is on?
If the server knows that, this is all a non-issue anyway.
Well that's the exact point eytanz raised in a similar thread. The server only knows your progress if CaravelNet is enabled.

Maybe triggering a progress report to be uploaded for anyone using the H&S board, regardless of CaravelNet status (when checking which rooms can be displayed)?

This means that if a secret room has not been accessed, it can't be seen. There would be issues for people who are browsing the forums from a different computer that their DROD install is on, but that could be explained.
02-19-2008 at 11:39 PM
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coppro
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
Syntax wrote:
Maybe triggering a progress report to be uploaded for anyone using the H&S board, regardless of CaravelNet status (when checking which rooms can be displayed)?
Caravel needs to pay for that server space.
02-20-2008 at 12:06 AM
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Syntax
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coppro wrote:
Syntax wrote:
Maybe triggering a progress report to be uploaded for anyone using the H&S board, regardless of CaravelNet status (when checking which rooms can be displayed)?
Caravel needs to pay for that server space.
I didn't mean store everyone's progress. Just a simple check when someone opens up H&S to get a status report on that given hold/level. This could be hacked of course, but as mentioned above, finding secret rooms' whereabouts can also be easily done on the forums.
02-20-2008 at 12:17 AM
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Beef Row
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (+1)  
Syntax wrote:
coppro wrote:
Syntax wrote:
Maybe triggering a progress report to be uploaded for anyone using the H&S board, regardless of CaravelNet status (when checking which rooms can be displayed)?
Caravel needs to pay for that server space.
I didn't mean store everyone's progress. Just a simple check when someone opens up H&S to get a status report on that given hold/level. This could be hacked of course, but as mentioned above, finding secret rooms' whereabouts can also be easily done on the forums.

I don't think it's possible to run such a check unless you're uploading and storing progress in the first place. That or accessing the H&S board from within the DROD client, so that it can communicate the needed data.

If you didn't meet one of those conditions, the caravelnet server would have to somehow be able to access your hard drive, determine the location of your DROD install(s), and parse the .dat files. And both as a practical and an ethical matter, that seems like a poor solution.

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02-20-2008 at 01:02 AM
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Syntax
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
Well, I don't really see an issue with asking people to be logged in to a secret room when they ask for help for that room on the forums but whatever...

Maybe an in-game option with the option to click "Get help for room" which would take you to the right thread might be better (including secret rooms which otherwise would be inaccessible from the main forum).
02-20-2008 at 02:04 AM
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
I had an idea that secret rooms could be assigned passwords which are revealed upon discovery, and these passwords would be needed to view the room images (each password would only need to be used once per account). I'm not sure whether or not it would be possible to do this with existing secret rooms without making things screwy, but it is perhaps something to look into.

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02-20-2008 at 04:27 AM
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Oneiromancer
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (+1)  
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Jatopian wrote:
Instead, I think one should be able to manually enter the coordinates of the room one needs help with.
I like this idea a lot. Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to implement :)
Yeah, that's not a bad idea. Once you choose the level, there could be something like "Looking for a secret room and it isn't on the map? Enter the coordinates in the boxes below." and then there could be boxes for entering the coordinates below the level map. The boxes could just be for the numbers in front of North, South, East, or West...although I guess there'd have to be an option for The Entrance for some oddly laid-out level.

It could either be set up to find the hint thread the normal way after typing it in, it could parse into a regular Search with the colons and spaces in the right places, although that kind of defeats the purpose.

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02-20-2008 at 05:10 AM
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Tuttle
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NoahT wrote:
I had an idea that secret rooms could be assigned passwords which are revealed upon discovery, and these passwords would be needed to view the room images (each password would only need to be used once per account).
Hmm, that gets me thinking. Does the client currently know the room IDs? Because if it does, that would make an excellent "password" of sorts. So when you're in TCB Infohut Entrance, the ID (15473) would be available (maybe through pressing Enter, or fitted into the left side somehow), and you could then just put that number into a field on the H&S form (to search, not be remembered).

Not only can everyone ask questions about any room they can get to, but even for CaravelNet users, searching H&S when the server is being slow just got a whole lot faster (one submission rather than having to wait for hold / level / room clicks).

[Last edited by Tuttle at 02-20-2008 05:23 AM]
02-20-2008 at 05:20 AM
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
Tuttle wrote:
Hmm, that gets me thinking. Does the client currently know the room IDs? Because if it does, that would make an excellent "password" of sorts.
Hmmm... I'm not sure - but if not, the client could supply you with a short hash for the room's full name that the server could check against a table of all possible hashes (i.e. one entry per room).

Then the client could either just copy that hash into the clipboard or directly open a browser window and pass the hash to some forum page that redirects to the correct help thread...

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02-20-2008 at 12:00 PM
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Briareos wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
Hmm, that gets me thinking. Does the client currently know the room IDs? Because if it does, that would make an excellent "password" of sorts.
Hmmm... I'm not sure - but if not, the client could supply you with a short hash for the room's full name that the server could check against a table of all possible hashes (i.e. one entry per room).

Then the client could either just copy that hash into the clipboard or directly open a browser window and pass the hash to some forum page that redirects to the correct help thread...
I think the room IDs are only set forum-side. They would be generated when the hold is submitted to the forum. It would probably take another patch to add something like this into the game itself, although it is also a neat idea.

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02-20-2008 at 01:20 PM
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Syntax
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
Yeah that goes with my idea of letting the server know "where you are" when you ask for help. I like it :)
02-20-2008 at 01:24 PM
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Schik
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (+1)  
Letting the user type in coordinates would still let them find secrets they didn't know about, but not any better than the current forum Search does, so I don't object to adding that.

I don't believe the client ever knows the room Ids that the server uses - all the translation from hold/level/room to Id is done on the server.

When we first added CaravelNet, I know we discussed linking it up to the H&S board... it's just one feature that never got done. I'm definitely cool with adding it in a future patch. A "Hints" button that would just open up your browser to the H&S board with the current room already searched for. Could be a good way to bring more people to the forum, anyways.

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02-20-2008 at 02:06 PM
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
Schik wrote:
Letting the user type in coordinates would still let them find secrets they didn't know about, but not any better than the current forum Search does, so I don't object to adding that.
Well, slightly better, since it would let you (with a little tedium) find secret rooms that didn't have topics. But that's not enough of a problem to prevent its implementation, IMHO.
02-20-2008 at 08:54 PM
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Syntax
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icon Re: Suggestion: "Show secrets" button on H&S search form (0)  
Schik wrote:
When we first added CaravelNet, I know we discussed linking it up to the H&S board... it's just one feature that never got done. I'm definitely cool with adding it in a future patch. A "Hints" button that would just open up your browser to the H&S board with the current room already searched for. Could be a good way to bring more people to the forum, anyways.
That sounds perfect :)
02-20-2008 at 09:52 PM
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Jatopian
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Tahnan wrote:
Schik wrote:
Letting the user type in coordinates would still let them find secrets they didn't know about, but not any better than the current forum Search does, so I don't object to adding that.
Well, slightly better, since it would let you (with a little tedium) find secret rooms that didn't have topics. But that's not enough of a problem to prevent its implementation, IMHO.
Plus, the forum search workaround can also accidentally spoil one.

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02-21-2008 at 12:10 AM
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Jatopian
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Schik wrote:
Letting the user type in coordinates would still let them find secrets they didn't know about, but not any better than the current forum Search does, so I don't object to adding that.
We just got another misplaced request today... any further consideration of this?

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05-17-2008 at 10:11 PM
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Jatopian
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Bumping because I can't start a thread on the room
Click here to view the secret text
even though I've visited it. Being able to see a secret room only after one has beaten it is not helpful.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 07-09-2009 05:44 PM]
07-09-2009 at 05:43 PM
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Jatopian wrote:
Being able to see a secret room only after one has beaten it is not helpful.
If I recall correctly, you have to leave the room and quit the game (or just leave to menu) in order for DROD to send message to the site that you visited said room.

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07-09-2009 at 05:46 PM
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