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DiMono
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So for no reason I can think of, I just took a look at the monster info front page, and I've come up with a few ways to make the information more readable. I will dispense my suggestions (note, they're only suggestions) now:

Roaches: change "and repelled by keeping the sword..." to "and restrained by keeping the sword..." or "and kept at bay by keeping the sword..."

Roach Queens: remove the comma in "every so often lay eggs, that will grow"

Wraithwings: the text ", unlike roaches" isn't necessary

Evil Eyes: rewrite: "Evil Eyes are odd creatures that could only turn up in a dungeon. Despite having no discernable mouth, they still have an insatiable appetite for Beethro-meat. Their usual hunting style involves staking out likely areas until some tasty morsel enters their field of vision; then they charge. They can be killed at any time, which might lead an amateur to believe they're weaker than even the lowly roach, but Evil Eyes are experts at surrounding their prey. Only the fiercest delvers even stand a chance against these menaces."

Serpents: rewrite: "Serpents are long creatures that shimmy toward Beethro before finally striking. Unfortunately, they're immune to all conventional weapons, so the only way to defeat them is by using their intelligence against them."

Living Tar: change "If broken up so it's only one tile wide or high" to "If cut too finely"
capitalize "Tar Baby" and "Tar Mother" wherever they appear, for consistency

Spiders: change "- they'll tend to hide in dungeons where their skin matches the floor" to "- they tend to hide in dungeons with floors the same colour as they are"

Goblins: change "one of the most" to "some of the most"
change ", but have recently found" to ". Unfortunately, the Goblins have recently learned" (note I include the comma at the beginning of this one)
change "especially if there's more than one goblin" to "especially in groups"
does the last line give away solutions to later levels?

Brains: there's no space between "Brains" and "can't"
change "or defend. They're dispatched" to "or defend themselves; they're easily dispatched"
change "brains won't attack, because they'll spread..." to "brains don't attack because they prefer to spread..."
change "moving around his sword, avoiding obstacles and whatnot" to "moving right around his sword, and other trivial obstacles"

The 'Neather: dismissed by whose father?
put "go play in the dungeons or something, can't you see I'm busy?" in quotes
change "access to other areas" to "access to the more secluded areas"
change "It's said he harbors an insane plan" to "It's said he's hatching an insane plan" (you harbor feelings and emotions, not nouns)


And that's my two cents worth, take it how you will.

[Edited by DiMono on 11-27-2003 at 07:15 AM GMT: made a trivial change]

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11-27-2003 at 07:12 AM
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eytanz
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DiMono wrote:
So for no reason I can think of, I just took a look at the monster info front page, and I've come up with a few ways to make the information more readable. I will dispense my suggestions (note, they're only suggestions) now:

Roaches: change "and repelled by keeping the sword..." to "and restrained by keeping the sword..." or "and kept at bay by keeping the sword..."

Good ideas. I like "restrained" better than "kept at bay" here.

Roach Queens: remove the comma in "every so often lay eggs, that will grow"

Agreed.

Wraithwings: the text ", unlike roaches" isn't necessary

But it doesn't really hurt, either, to make this explicit.

Evil Eyes: rewrite: "Evil Eyes are odd creatures that could only turn up in a dungeon. Despite having no discernable mouth, they still have an insatiable appetite for Beethro-meat. Their usual hunting style involves staking out likely areas until some tasty morsel enters their field of vision; then they charge. They can be killed at any time, which might lead an amateur to believe they're weaker than even the lowly roach, but Evil Eyes are experts at surrounding their prey. Only the fiercest delvers even stand a chance against these menaces."

Except for the sentence I bolded, your text is better than the original, having a smoother "flow" to it. But the problem is - evil eyes are no better at surrouding their prey than other monsters; your phrasing implies different movement rules. They're just often strategically placed. Perhaps:

"but Evil Eyes often choose strategic vantage points that allow them to quickly surround their enemies"

?

Serpents: rewrite: "Serpents are long creatures that shimmy toward Beethro before finally striking. Unfortunately, they're immune to all conventional weapons, so the only way to defeat them is by using their intelligence against them."

It's a good idea not to mention the word "brain" in the text, since that can be confusing, but I don't think serpents are particularly intelligent or are supposed to act in that manner. Maybe say "by using their limited intelligence against them"? Also, you are even less direct than the original piece in describing how to kill them - I'm not sure that really matters, but if the text here contains little information, we might be forcing the newbies to go to the spoiler pages.

Living Tar: change "If broken up so it's only one tile wide or high" to "If cut too finely"
capitalize "Tar Baby" and "Tar Mother" wherever they appear, for consistency

I agree, on both counts.

Spiders: change "- they'll tend to hide in dungeons where their skin matches the floor" to "- they tend to hide in dungeons with floors the same colour as they are"

Agreed.

Goblins: change "one of the most" to "some of the most"
change ", but have recently found" to ". Unfortunately, the Goblins have recently learned" (note I include the comma at the beginning of this one)
change "especially if there's more than one goblin" to "especially in groups"

I agree

does the last line give away solutions to later levels?

I think level 14 already features the first "serpent death by goblin" puzzle - but yeah, I think this line should probably be removed, or at least moved to the inner page.

Brains: there's no space between "Brains" and "can't"
change "or defend. They're dispatched" to "or defend themselves; they're easily dispatched"
change "brains won't attack, because they'll spread..." to "brains don't attack because they prefer to spread..."
change "moving around his sword, avoiding obstacles and whatnot" to "moving right around his sword, and other trivial obstacles"

All good ideas.

The 'Neather: dismissed by whose father?
put "go play in the dungeons or something, can't you see I'm busy?" in quotes
change "access to other areas" to "access to the more secluded areas"
change "It's said he harbors an insane plan" to "It's said he's hatching an insane plan" (you harbor feelings and emotions, not nouns)

Again, agreed.

Overall, very good suggestions.


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11-27-2003 at 03:56 PM
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DiMono
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Wraithwings: I just feel it's already implied that it's different than roaches, since they're all that's come before

Evil Eyes: How about "...but Evil Eyes might surround you while you're not looking" ...heh, word play

Serpents: Finding ways to kill them's all part of the fun :) Besides, the first time you see them it's kind of explicit what you're supposed to do.

And unless someone insults my shoes, that's all I have to say on this matter :)

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11-27-2003 at 04:54 PM
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Mattcrampy
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This topic makes me sad.

In any case, I agree with all but one of your suggestions - the 'go play in the dungeons or something, can't you see I'm busy?' wouldn't work with quotes. It's supposed to slide from what he was told to do to what his father said.

Matt

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11-28-2003 at 03:20 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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These are pretty good suggestions, I guess, but are they really necessary? As far as I know, everyone here really knows what they are already, and I don't think they're too hard to under stand.....

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11-28-2003 at 05:28 PM
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agaricus5
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:
These are pretty good suggestions, I guess, but are they really necessary? As far as I know, everyone here really knows what they are already, and I don't think they're too hard to under stand.....
They are, in my opinion. Good English grammar is very important in helping to make a website look good. The fact that someone has spotted such improvements means that there are then less things viewers can find fault with when they view the page, thus improving the quality of the site and people's impressions of it.

...(you harbor feelings and emotions, not nouns)

That's not actually quite true. You can harbour nouns as well, although doing so requires a slightly different meaning of the word.

In addition, I have noticed a little inconsistency with American/British spelling in the quote above. "Harbor" has been used in the above quote, but "Colour" had also been used previously in the message:

Spiders: change "- they'll tend to hide in dungeons where their skin matches the floor" to "- they tend to hide in dungeons with floors the same colour as they are"

I think "harbor" should be spelt "harbour" in this case.

Living Tar: change "If broken up so it's only one tile wide or high" to "If cut too finely".

If we withhold too much information from players, in this case the tar reformation after cutting, would this not encourage players who cannot understand Tar to look at spoilery hints?

[Edited by agaricus5 on 11-28-2003 at 06:15 PM GMT]

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11-28-2003 at 06:14 PM
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DiMono
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I think new players would experiment with the tar and figure out what 'too finely' means on their own. I figured out the entire game without even knowing of this site :glasses

Matt, if you'd like me to I can go through all the pages and lend my writer's eyes to them and find grammar and spelling mistakes and the like. As long as I can put "editor of www.drod.net" on my resume :D

And for spellings, I was half asleep at 2am when I wrote it, or it would have been consistent. So there :P

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11-28-2003 at 06:54 PM
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Mattcrampy
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Teach me to trust the spell-checker.

As a guide, I'll tend to favour British over American spelling, but I was fairly sure 'harbor' was expressively for having thoughts and feelings and so on.

There are a few places where I deliberately used American spelling.

DiMono: Race you. I'm doing the site all this weekend, as I've got too many things I want to get done.

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11-28-2003 at 07:09 PM
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Mattcrampy
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agaricus5 wrote:
They are, in my opinion. Good English grammar is very important in helping to make a website look good. The fact that someone has spotted such improvements means that there are then less things viewers can find fault with when they view the page, thus improving the quality of the site and people's impressions of it.


That, and if I look at what I've written and go, ugh, that's ugly, it needs work.

Matt

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11-28-2003 at 07:15 PM
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ErikH2000
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Teach me to trust the spell-checker.

As a guide, I'll tend to favour British over American spelling, but I was fairly sure 'harbor' was expressively for having thoughts and feelings and so on.
I've got a soft spot for British spelling, but I can't be a big fakey Brit-speller--I'd look silly and pretentious like Alain Jourgensen did. If you guys want to change text in general to have the extra u's and all the business, that's really cool. But if the author of some text is explicitly stated i.e. "By Erik Hermansen", you should leave the international flavor as-is, and get permission from the author for other types of edits. I think there are some articles like this by me, Wesley Chua, and Clayton Weiss.

My apologies if that was really obvious. :)

-Erik

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11-28-2003 at 07:50 PM
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DiMono
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Mattcrampy wrote:
DiMono: Race you. I'm doing the site all this weekend, as I've got too many things I want to get done.

Matt
That's hardly fair, you have access to the server and can change things immediately before I even come across them. :p

So where do you want me to send my ideas to, the forum or an email?

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11-29-2003 at 05:25 AM
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krammer
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As a guide, I'll tend to favour British over American spelling, but I was fairly sure 'harbor' was expressively for having thoughts and feelings and so on.
It's probably me being stupid, but American spellings often really irritate me. Color, favor etc. aren't so bad, but I detest the single 'l' in words like travelling and especially 'er' in place of 're' (eg centre, NOT center). :angry

And don't get me started on grammar mistakes...

But this is a little :offtopic. I do have a valid point - that all this info we are trying to avoid giving away is found in the help file, so that should probably be changed too so that there's no discrepancy between site and game.

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11-29-2003 at 02:27 PM
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Mattcrampy
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krammer wrote:
I detest... especially 'er' in place of 're' (eg centre, NOT center). :angry

I've been caught by that a few times - centreing tables is done by typing 'center'. If it's not spelt that way it just doesn't work. It took me ages to work out what was going on.

I do have a valid point - that all this info we are trying to avoid giving away is found in the help file, so that should probably be changed too so that there's no discrepancy between site and game.

True, but where do you draw the line? Each monster page has both hints and what's in the help file, and they don't seperate that easily. I personally agree with you, but I think the solution we've got is probably the best. Plus it means there's one less wasted page.

But I'm still open to changing it.

Oh, and the Game Info and Tips areas are being mixed together in the next day or so. GIMP still doesn't like gifs, so I'm going to give up and use another program. Say what you like about open-source, their interfaces often need some work.

Matt

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11-30-2003 at 09:31 AM
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Oneiromancer
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When I was very young I learned to read mostly from The Chronicles of Narnia, The Hobbit, and The Beatles Illustrated Lyrics. Many of them had British spellings of words, especially humour and colour. It took the teachers quite a while to work that out of me once I started writing stuff for school.

But I don't know, to me, getting angry over dialect differences in written languages is like getting angry over someone speaking with a different accent. Both can be overcome through training but do they really need to be?

Game on,

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11-30-2003 at 06:20 PM
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krammer
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I'm not trying to blame you or anything. That's how you've always been taught to spell, and so you see it as right. I know it's petty, but we all have little things we hate, and spelling/grammar is one of mine. Somehow though, accent is different - everyone speaks differently, but writing is standardised, so why should the same word be spelt differently in different places?

Of course, it would be wrong to call British spelling right and American wrong, but - well, I defend that argument by saying British came first. :D

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11-30-2003 at 07:55 PM
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DiMono
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I'd defend it by saying American spelings are only used in the U.S., while British spellings are used everywhere else. :D

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11-30-2003 at 09:16 PM
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agaricus5
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DiMono wrote:
I'd defend it by saying American spelings are only used in the U.S., while British spellings are used everywhere else. :D
Yes, but "are you consistent?" is the question.

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11-30-2003 at 11:30 PM
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DiMono
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Well, I'm sure I'm not, since living next to the U.S. I'm constantly exposed to both spellings, and I need to use "center" when I code html. I try though.

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12-01-2003 at 12:12 AM
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Sokko
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American spelings

I'd say your American "speling" needs a little work. :D

Though I remain impartial when dealing with spelling differences, even as an objective observer I have to say that the American system factually makes more sense. Look at the pronounciation: "center" is pronounced just like that, with an "er" sound at the end. By switching the e and the r, the "er" sound cannot exist and you create a situation where the spelling and the pronounciation are inconsistent. Since when does "re" make an "er" sound? The fact that only a vowel followed by a consonant can make a vowel-consonant sound is a standard that has yet to be broken (except by the British, of course ;)).

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12-01-2003 at 09:45 PM
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mrimer
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Uh, oh. I'm gonna duck my head...

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12-01-2003 at 10:20 PM
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agaricus5
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Sokko wrote:
American spelings

I'd say your American "speling" needs a little work. :D

I think making fun of typos is not a good idea, especially as this tends to cause some unpleasant arguments between people. Please let's not have another fight over spelling on the forum.

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12-02-2003 at 12:50 AM
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DiMono
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One of my favourite things to say is "Damn speeling"

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12-02-2003 at 08:43 PM
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Sokko
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Sheesh, can't a person poke fun at anything on these boards without getting reprimanded for it? Pretty soon our happy smiley posting rights will be restricted as well. Just step back, lower your hackles, and remind yourself that this is not a serious topic. This is spelling. There can be nothing more humorous than poking fun at spelling, if it's taken the right way. If not, well... you get arguments over things as small as (quite literally) two letters. I always hope that everyone will not take things too seriously and will recognize humor (or humour) for what it is.

Also keep in mind that I stated my views as an objective person. I use things like color and colour interchangeably, which really annoys my teachers. ;)

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12-05-2003 at 11:05 PM
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DiMono
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...........you do realise that all the posts in this thread about spelling were intended as tongue-in-cheeque, right?

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12-06-2003 at 05:39 PM
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No, I don't think all of them were...I think some of the people were serious about it.

Game on,

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12-06-2003 at 07:29 PM
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Mattcrampy
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tongue-in-cheeque

I'm going to assume this is tongue-in-cheek humour. For the sake of board sanity.

Stay sane, board!

Matt

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12-07-2003 at 11:26 AM
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DiMono
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Stay sane, board!
But being sane is boring, why not stain the board?

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12-07-2003 at 07:54 PM
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why not stain the board

Where's the Pledge?

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12-12-2003 at 09:41 PM
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DiMono
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Beethro took it upon entering Dugan's Dungeon, didn't he?

"I pledge to smite the monsters herein,
be them grey or blue or some other colour,
and not even painful death will stop me"

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12-14-2003 at 03:55 AM
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Um... wow, this topic is getting out of hand...

I need a Pepsi. :pepsi
12-14-2003 at 04:30 AM
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