AtkinsSJ
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 107
Registered: 12-23-2005
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Jatopian wrote:

golfrman wrote:
If you want to talk about global warming, go to the correct thread.

Read, comprehend, then correct if necessary.

I believe you failed to comprehend the element of humour.

Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

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AtkinsSJ wrote:

Jatopian wrote:

golfrman wrote:
If you want to talk about global warming, go to the correct thread.

Read, comprehend, then correct if necessary.

I believe you failed to comprehend the element of humour.

Meh, I wouldn't say it's that humorous to point out a joke I purposely inserted.

But now, tremble beneath the element that is of layered quoting! Or, at least, the beginning of the end . . . an end that involves a quoting of all quotings! I have fury!

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Also known as ExpHP everywhere else.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-25-2007 07:04 PM]

golfrman
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 165
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Jatopian wrote:

golfrman wrote:
If you want to talk about global warming, go to the correct thread.

Read, comprehend, then correct if necessary.

'Twas a joke...

____________________________
Jesus is Lord and Messiah!

Monkey
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 190
Registered: 03-21-2006
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calamarain wrote:
One could always cheat... have 25 levels each with three rooms. The entrance room, the exit room and one puzzle room

No, no no... that's too long. Make 25 levels with 1 room, with each room an entrance, puzzle, and exit room in 1!

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lurking

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[Last edited by Monkey at 08-25-2007 11:00 PM]

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

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Monkey wrote:
Make 25 levels with 1 room, with each room an entrance, puzzle, and exit room in 1!

Now you're overdoing it...

np: Radiohead - No Surprises (OK Computer)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 933
Registered: 03-25-2007
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Have 25 levels, each consisting of two tiles. One tile for Beethro to start on, and one tile with the stairs down

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Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
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calamarain wrote:
Have 25 levels, each consisting of two tiles. One tile for Beethro to start on, and one tile with the stairs down

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG
Two tiles, one for the player to start on, one for a scripted character immediately using "Go to level entrance" command.

____________________________
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Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 08-26-2007 01:27 AM : speeling]

tailchaser
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 38
Registered: 01-09-2006
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Jatopian wrote:

calamarain wrote:
Have 25 levels, each consisting of two tiles. One tile for Beethro to start on, and one tile with the stairs down

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG
Two tiles, one for the player to start one, one for a scripted character immediately using "Go to level entrance" command.

But then you would still have to deal with the delay of making 25 separate rooms. There's a better way, since it's possible to put multiple level entrances in the same room: Make a single room with 25 open tiles that Beethro can stand on, put a level entrance on each one, and put an invisible character next to each level entrance with a script as follows:

Wait for entity Player at [coordinates of level entrance]
Go to level entrance [either the next level entrance or, for the last one, this can say end hold]

That's the fastest possible way to make a 25-level hold. And, as an added bonus, it's undeniably an original room, since no room in any previously published hold does anything like this!


____________________________
bill-Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha died in The Dungeons of Doom on level 1. Killed by a burning scroll.

calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

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Or, you could just make 25 levels, each full of about 20 delighful puzzling rooms, with perfect scripting and providing a gradual difficulty curve...


...nah, too much effort. Let's just churn out another Ketchup and Puppies.

____________________________
My Holds

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
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calamarain wrote:
Or, you could just make 25 levels, each full of about 20 delighful puzzling rooms, with perfect scripting and providing a gradual difficulty curve...

But that would be unoriginal!

____________________________
DROD has some really great music.
Make your pressure plates 3.0 style!
DROD architecture idea generator

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 08-26-2007 07:11 PM : I'm joking, you lot.]

calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

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Jatopian wrote:

calamarain wrote:
Or, you could just make 25 levels, each full of about 20 delighful puzzling rooms, with perfect scripting and providing a gradual difficulty curve...

But that would be unoriginal!

Urgh... unfortunately, you've got a point However it's the sort of unoriginality that's good, do you really want to see what the most sadistic hold I could create would be like? Orb puzzles. 400 rooms of orb puzzles. Insanely hard ones that require a minimum of fifteen orb strikes in the right order.

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My Holds

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[Last edited by calamarain at 08-26-2007 02:22 AM]

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
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calamarain wrote:
Insanely hard ones that require a minimum of fifteen orb strikes in the right order.

Bavato's Dungeon anyone? (If I remember correctly) - last room was a grid of 25 orbs which had to be pressed in *an* order yet not necessarily all of them. Each orb toggled, opened or closed some of the multiple doors. The aim was to leave them all open.

Certainly didn't go down too well with players

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[Last edited by Syntax at 08-26-2007 04:27 AM : Typo]

Dex Stewart
Level: Smiter
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Nope, that was Deep Hold by The_Red_Hawk

calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 933
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Syntax wrote:

calamarain wrote:
Insanely hard ones that require a minimum of fifteen orb strikes in the right order.

Bavato's Dungeon anyone? (If I remember correctly) - last room was a grid of 25 orbs which had to be pressed in *an* order yet not necessarily all of them. Each orb toggled, opened or closed some of the multiple doors. The aim was to leave them all open.

Certainly didn't go down too well with players

Nasty. Bavato's definitely a sadist

____________________________
My Holds

BeefontheBone
Level: Master Delver

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calamarain wrote:
Nasty. The_Red_Hawk's definitely a sadist

Fixed.

What? Everyone was doing it...

____________________________
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Beef Row wrote: Actually, it doesn't really matter because the soap is a lye.

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[Last edited by BeefontheBone at 08-26-2007 01:18 PM]

RoboBob3000
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There appears to have been a method to RedHawk's madness. Look at this portion of the Orb Solver Program thread.

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zonhin
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 99
Registered: 10-18-2005
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What happened to all those people who used to post but don't anymore. It's kind of sad actually.

____________________________
I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

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File: Lamps evil orb puzzle of doom.hold (2.6 KB)
Downloaded 42 times.
License: Public Domain

RoboBob3000 wrote:
There appears to have been a method to RedHawk's madness. Look at this portion of the Orb Solver Program thread.

Does anyone remember me talking about stuff called "Keyrooms" in my hold? I wasn't able to consistently make hard rooms, so whenever I made a painfully hard room admist a whole ton of easy rooms, I gave it secret status and made the only time it is required be for hold mastery and some non-required hold secrets.

Well, one is an orb puzzle that is so sadistically hard. That orb puzzle solver can not solve it.

If you actually solve it, write down the orb order for when you actually have to do it when my hold is released in the year 2235.

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Also known as ExpHP everywhere else.

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
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Done. That was easy.

Finished in 7 orb hits.

Kwakstur
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TFMurphy wrote:
Finished in 7 orb hits.

Uh, oh, I sense a somewhat-trivial solution.

Does the roach go around in a spiral? I believe he's supposed to cross an open gate 17 times. If he only walks across two or three gates, then it's a trivial solution.

EDIT: Well, I think the problem is that you can still guide the roach south after going through the tunnel.

____________________________
Also known as ExpHP everywhere else.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 08-26-2007 08:28 PM]

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
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Well... his *optimal* path that I was using only crosses 15. Of course, he ends up crossing 19 (and some of those twice) due to following me all over the place. I did only need to go round the loop once though, if that's what you mean ^_^

Was fun for 10-20 minutes though!

Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 385
Registered: 05-05-2006
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Sigh. I feel incompetent.

I wonder why?

____________________________
Also known as ExpHP everywhere else.

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
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Eh, don't feel too bad. One of the problems you're butting up against is that additional constraints on an orb puzzle actually makes it *easier* to solve, because it reduces the combinations that must be checked. Also, it's quite easy to take a snapshot of your room and color-code *all* the doors that can possibly be opened. Once you know the possible routes that must be taken, you could even dump that in to any Orb Solver you want (I just used logical deduction and experimentation myself though) and solve it that way, getting the Orb Solver to ignore any doors that just isn't part of the solution (fairly easy by just omitting them from the list). You can even modify the input to an Orb Solver if the room contains any traps (doors that must be left *closed* instead of opened) by reversing all inputs to that door.

Basically, don't expect complexity to automatically make a puzzle harder - it can just as easily make it easier.

EDIT: Also, you can learn from things like this, so definitely don't feel bad at all. Even if it's not "sadistically hard", it's still interesting enough to make a room, so it's no loss.

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[Last edited by TFMurphy at 08-26-2007 08:42 PM]

calamarain
Level: Smitemaster

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TFMurphy wrote:
EDIT: Also, you can learn from things like this, so definitely don't feel bad at all. Even if it's not "sadistically hard", it's still interesting enough to make a room, so it's no loss.

Sadistically hard definitely isn't a requirement (with the exception of Beethro's Teacher ;-) ), but interesting is.

____________________________
My Holds