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calamarain
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Is it possible to transfer elfstone.co.uk to somewhere else, or is it bound to the place it's at for a certain time? I'm wondering if the same setup that I use might be worthwhile - what I have is my domain name (calamarain.net) on a service that provides me a shell account.

I then make the webpages on my home computer and upload them, and it all just works. That way, you wouldn't be beholden to Sitemaker and using Flash.

Of course this depends on whether elfstone.co.uk can be moved around easily :S

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09-14-2007 at 12:01 AM
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Kevin_P86
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It isn't elfstone.co.uk, it's elfstone.webeden.co.uk which is the domain assigned to her by the hosting site webeden.co.uk. I don't think elfstone has registered a domain.

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09-14-2007 at 12:04 AM
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Syntax
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Kevin_P86 wrote:
It isn't elfstone.co.uk, it's elfstone.webeden.co.uk which is the domain assigned to her by the hosting site webeden.co.uk. I don't think elfstone has registered a domain.
Elfstone did actually so it's strange they're imposing their own domain name (or maybe they don't allow non eden domains).

Elfstone, I just wanted to briefly add this:
* When you hear the words "Flash" or "Macromedia", think of the menu you would get on a DVD from which you can select a scene or extras
* When you hear "HTML" or "web page", think of a book which you can simply read

That's how the browser sees it... And personally, I much prefer a book.

That's the difference :)

(I am hoping you've rented a DVD before... right? ;))
09-14-2007 at 07:10 AM
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NiroZ
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Elfstone, you might want to consider using one of the free blog platforms to post your poems. Free blog services include wordpress, blogger and livejournal. None of them use flash, and they all have simple interfaces (well, I think they do, I haven't tried them all).
09-14-2007 at 08:50 AM
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Alneyan
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I'm feeling a little bit slimey as I type this, but I don't have a problem with the use of Flash on this particular website, since you can just use the content-full, Flash-free version of the website and be done with it. The non-Flash website works pretty well on lowest common denominator text-only browsers, with actual, genuine text that can be cut'n'pasted; seems good enough to me.

09-14-2007 at 08:52 AM
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NiroZ
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Alneyan wrote:
I'm feeling a little bit slimey as I type this, but I don't have a problem with the use of Flash on this particular website, since you can just use the content-full, Flash-free version of the website and be done with it. The non-Flash website works pretty well on lowest common denominator text-only browsers, with actual, genuine text that can be cut'n'pasted; seems good enough to me.
Problem is most people don't have a non flash browser, and even then, the text version has some wonky formatting.
09-14-2007 at 09:06 AM
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techant
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Elfstone I am a web-designer by trade. I check out you site and what they are saying about the site using flash is correct. Now that said you did a great job and what you want to use depends on your needs. So, take a deep breath....

I can see that you are a wonderful writer. I really liked the one poem that you have posted. Now, if your goal is to become as great a web-designer as you are a writer that is fine, but this hosting site (the place you made your website) is not the place for that. You need to go a different direction from the one you are on.

Some folks really want the challenge of doing it themselves and that is all right. But, others just want a nice site, with just a little work. That was easy in the beginning of the Internet when we all had sites at geocities ( now taken over by yahoo). And the adverts didn't bothers us because they were not as bad as they are now, but things have changed and putting up as site easily is not so easy anymore.

I am glad you felt that sense of excitement having created something of your own. The set up at this host, where you are now, will make it easy for you to get a site up quick and easy. I just has a downside and for some it is a big one.

Now I am all for hard coding and using the best w3 standards but really if Elfstone just wants a good site this may be the thing for now.

Elfstone you have a few choices:

1> First just continue on as you are going. I checked out your site on my WinXP using IE, Mozilla and Opera and it came up fine on them all. It was a slow load at times and I am on broadband so that may effect you decision but it looked great.

The upside is that it is really hard to steal you poems. Using this Flash method means no one can just right click and swipe. I didn't notice a copyright notice on the poem page. I recommend that you add that. Protect yourself as much as you can when it come to stuff you create.

While you can keep the domain name you purchased if you renew it each year you don't have to stay with this host. The downside is you can do lots of work and not be able to take it with you if you decide to go somewhere else, or if the host you have goes under or to the dark side. :w00t

2>Then again you may want to download a trial version of Adobe® Dreamweaver® CS3. I don't like MS Frontpage so I will not recommend it, others can if they like, but not me. :thumbsdown

Now this is a steep learning curve but if you want to know how to build web pages this is the way to go.

Use the free tutorials included and on the website. They will introduce you to the basic and more complex concepts. Remember you didn't get to be a great poet in a day, or did you?

Once you learn the concepts. You can skip the expense by using the Open Source website designers Nvu (pronounced N-view, for a "new view")

With this method you will be in the drivers seat and any design you create you can take it with you. Who knows you may turn into a web-designer like me.

3>You can use a Blog site as others have recommended but I really don't see that working for you. That doesn't mean you can't have one that you link to and use as a blog. Now if you were just going to have talks or blogs about poetry or your poems than that would work. But, to use that structure the way I see you going with your design, I just wouldn't recommend it.

4> You could hire a web-designer like me or sign up for one of my complete website packages at IntegrityWebsiteSolutions.com [WARNING self-promotion commercial here]

While we are in your price range, with prices from $99 per year for a complete 1 page website to $299 per year for a complete 5 pages website, we build it for you and I think you want more control than that.

The reason I started my business was because so many folks wanted a website but didn't have the time or money to put into learning how to build one. I love building sites and I think you would love it to, once you get the hang of it.

5> Lastly you can continue to shop for an inexpensive host that will give you building tools other than the ones you have. Finding one that is free in unlikely I have yet to find one. That, and easy of construction, is one reason so many folks use MYSPACE. Personally what you have is much better. You will find deals out there but READ THE CONTRACT.

In summary, breathe... you are doing great and if I started writing poems I would be as stressed about it as you are about site designing. So, give yourself some credit for trying.

Again what you have looks great and it can be temporary, 6 months to a few years. Just remember you will have to do it all over again if you move to another site with the method you have now. But in a few years you may want to do that anyway. Things on the Internet change so quickly.

If you need more info let me know. I look forward to reading more of your poems...

I forgot to add use your new domain name that you got instead of the address they gave you if you decide to stay where you are.
They tell you how in the support section under FAQ's.

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[Last edited by techant at 09-14-2007 10:44 AM]
09-14-2007 at 10:31 AM
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Syntax
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Well put :) Hell... I learnt a few things too ;)
09-14-2007 at 11:14 AM
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Alneyan
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techant wrote:
The upside is that it is really hard to steal you poems. Using this Flash method means no one can just right click and swipe. I didn't notice a copyright notice on the poem page. I recommend that you add that. Protect yourself as much as you can when it come to stuff you create.

I don't have much to add to your post Techant, but I beg to dissent here. Her website still uses plain HTML pages, so Flash merely deters the less technical savvy from doing a quick cut'n'paste job. In other words, it's about as effective as that dastardly JavaScript that disables right-clicking; it works some of the time, but can otherwise be bypassed with ease. Heck, in the worst cast scenario, you could go the OCR way or even type it by hand.

So my point is the classical 'technological solutions can't solve social problems'. If you want to protect your stuff, you can't rely on that sort of design 'feature'; that's up to copyright law, slimey attorneys and their ilk, as your website cannot be automagically protected from plagiarizing.

[Last edited by Alneyan at 09-14-2007 02:42 PM]
09-14-2007 at 02:40 PM
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Elfstone
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Good heavens!! :w00t

Home from work; sitting back with a cup of steaming Darjeeling; brain-dead end-of-the-week feeling (you know, the usual Friday night things); thought I'd come in here and have a gentle browse before I go and watch England demolish South Africa ( :lol :lol :lol :lol now I almost said that with a straight face!!) and I'm going to have to start Thinking again!!

Can I just say that I am very grateful for all the interest in, and help offered for, my little project. I will quite seriously have to switch my brain back on to read again all that has been suggested. Special thanks to Techant for taking the time to write such a long and interesting reply; I will have to print that one out, I think, and take time to digest it.

Just one question (not another one I hear you groan!) in the light of what has been said so far: is there a webhost who does templates in HTML?

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09-14-2007 at 05:52 PM
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NiroZ
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Elfstone wrote:
Just one question (not another one I hear you groan!) in the light of what has been said so far: is there a webhost who does templates in HTML?
I think there are far more templates in HTML than in flash.
09-14-2007 at 06:00 PM
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Elfstone
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NiroZ wrote:I think there are far more templates in HTML than in flash.

Thanks NiroZ - so where would I find them?

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09-14-2007 at 06:03 PM
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NiroZ
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well you can always try the old Geocities or Google Page creator. I don't know if they are particularly user friendly or all that great.

They are, however, good examples.
09-14-2007 at 06:08 PM
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Syntax
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Good call. I'd go with the google solution...
09-14-2007 at 08:09 PM
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Elfstone
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Well, with apologies to any English folk here, I gave up watching after half time - England were playing so badly! :thumbsdown

I have printed out this whole page to re-read the various comments which people have made and, if you'll bear with me, I'd like to reply to several of them in this one post.

Calamarian said: Is it possible to transfer elfstone.co.uk to somewhere else? I really don't understand the question - it belongs to me now, it's registered, so why would I not be allowed to move it?

Syntax said: (I am hoping you've rented a DVD before... right? ) Yes dear!

NiroZ said: Elfstone, you might want to consider using one of the free blog platforms to post your poems. Thanks - I will take a look at the links you've given, but am I not right in thinking that blogs are basically just electronic diaries?

Alneyan said: The non-Flash website works pretty well on lowest common denominator text-only browsers, with actual, genuine text that can be cut'n'pasted; seems good enough to me. - yes but last night in Chat you said that it left "ugly presentation" and I really don't want that.

NikroZ replied: and even then, the text version has some wonky formatting - and of course for poetry, formatting is absolutely essential!

There is much in Techants post to which I would like to reply, but it is long, so in order to save space, I'll put it in secret tags (I've also edited a little)
Click here to view the secret text


There is a little irony in this in that I had no intention of setting up a web site for my poems; rather, I intended to set up a support site for teachers. When I started to explore the ways of doing this I thought it might be easier to start with something I'd already written, hence the embryonic poetry site. Now that I have started that however, I really would like to finish it, then use what I learn to establish the "professional" site.

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09-14-2007 at 10:44 PM
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Briareos
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Elfstone wrote:
Now I am all for hard coding and using the best w3 standards . . . :~( lost me there (not that that's difficult!)
Even though I might risk losing you somewhere else along the way:

W3 is another writing of WWW (as in W*3), which is of course the abbreviation of World Wide Web. So W3 standards are standards (like HTML for content, CSS for formatting and others) for the World Wide Web, as blessed by the W3C, also known as the World Wide Web Consortium.

One thing there would be the technical specification for HTML in case you're interested...

(Obligatory warning: W3C specs are very plain, dry and technical - but they set the various web standards in stone...)

np: Jürgen Paape - Fruity Loops #2 (Speicher CD3)

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09-14-2007 at 11:39 PM
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Elfstone
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Thanks again Briareos.
Briareos wrote
Obligatory warning: W3C specs are very plain, dry and technical . . .
and very learned looking! I could sit and read through some of that Briareos, but I suspect it would be way over my head. I wonder if there is a book about HTML in the "dummies" series?

Techant said above: but really if Elfstone just wants a good site this may be the thing for now and she might be right. I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to proceed - do I start trying to learn all the complexities of how websites work, or do I just content myself with "Flash"? I think I'll sleep on it!



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09-15-2007 at 12:04 AM
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NiroZ
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Elfstone wrote:
NiroZ said: Elfstone, you might want to consider using one of the free blog platforms to post your poems. Thanks - I will take a look at the links you've given, but am I not right in thinking that blogs are basically just electronic diaries?
With a few extra bells and whistles, but yes. However, not all blogs are used as electronic diaries.
09-15-2007 at 04:10 AM
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techant
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Syntax wrote:
Good call. I'd go with the google solution...

I have a gmail account and I tried to get in to the page creator in both IE and Mozilla, did you get in? :?

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09-16-2007 at 02:52 AM
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Elfstone
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Syntax wrote:
Good call. I'd go with the google solution...
What are your reasons for saying that?

I had a look at both of the links (thanks again NiroZ). I already have a Yahoo email account and was able to have a prowl around the various possibilties there. (Oddly, I couldnt find a Sterling price list :unsure) To get access to the google one I would have to sign up for a gmail account - do I want to do that?

Techant, in one of those . . oh!! . . moments last night I remembered my Macworld discs. I subscribe to the Macworld magazine (although I often wonder why, given that most of it is over my head) and every month a disc comes with the magazine. I usuually have a cursory glance through what's on it and invariably I don't have a clue what most of it is, far less whather I could make use of it or not (mind you, I did find my way to DROD on one of those and that alone justifies my subscription!).

Well last night I went searching and found a 30 day trial version of Dreamweaver 8 on one of them. There is also a 30 day trial of something called Contribute 3 which is apparently "fantastic web publishing software". Now there wasn't time to do anything with either (rugby seems to be taking over my life at the moment - 3 games a day? - something of an embarrassment of riches perhaps :~( ) but I will have a look at them later today.

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09-16-2007 at 09:12 AM
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Briareos
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techant wrote:
Syntax wrote:
Good call. I'd go with the google solution...

I have a gmail account and I tried to get in to the page creator in both IE and Mozilla, did you get in? :?
It worked for me - all I had to do was login again at pages.google.com and check a box to accept their terms and conditions, but that was it - how far did you get?

np: Nicole Willis - Bliss Of Life (Soul Makeover)

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09-16-2007 at 09:58 AM
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techant
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Briareos wrote:
techant wrote:
Syntax wrote:
Good call. I'd go with the google solution...

I have a gmail account and I tried to get in to the page creator in both IE and Mozilla, did you get in? :?
It worked for me - all I had to do was login again at pages.google.com and check a box to accept their terms and conditions, but that was it - how far did you get?

np: Nicole Willis - Bliss Of Life (Soul Makeover)

That was all I got. I read the TOS (I always do) and then checked the box, then nothing...waiting... nothing. I tried it in Mozilla in case I had some wierd setting in IE but the same thing. I only have one gmail account so I couldn't try another one.

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09-16-2007 at 10:50 AM
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Briareos
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techant wrote:
That was all I got. I read the TOS (I always do) and then checked the box, then nothing...waiting... nothing.
Well, there was a button below the checkbox that of course also needed to be clicked on to continue - I assume you did that? *wonders*

np: Luke Vibert - Breakbeat Metal Music (Chicago, Detroit, Redruth)

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09-16-2007 at 11:08 AM
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Elfstone
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Well, I have downloaded Dreamweaver8 from the disc and opened it and . . . it all seems to be immensely complicated. :(

I 'll have a look at the link it gives to the site, but I am very uncertain about dipping my toe in this particular pool because of the amount I might have to learn. :~(

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09-16-2007 at 11:27 AM
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Elfstone
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Techant said
I didn't notice a copyright notice on the poem page.
I've just been back into the site to check that, because all my poems have © Elfstone and the date of writing, at the bottom and I had simply done apple-a and apple-c then apple-v. I can see the © Elfstone/date there, but I wonder if there is a problem for visitors to the site seeing it? I'd be grateful if you'd double check that for me Techant.


Syntax said
Good call. I'd go with the google solution...

Syntax - I did a little research and quite quickly came across THIS. If you have a moment will you read it please and tell me if google is still worth considering?

BTW, if anyone's interested, I have tweaked the site and added a couple of poems. :)

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[Last edited by Elfstone at 09-16-2007 09:44 PM]
09-16-2007 at 09:34 PM
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Briareos
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Elfstone wrote:
Syntax - I did a little research and quite quickly came across THIS. If you have a moment will you read it please and tell me if google is still worth considering?
Well, that's an easy one...

Just don't use your Google account for email, and you should be set - after all, I believe you already have another email account you've been using all along, right?

Yeah, I have a Google mail account to, but all I ever use it for is for receiving attachments from a mailinglist a few friends of mine set up to mail out the latest joke videos/PPTs/etc.

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09-16-2007 at 10:27 PM
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Maurog
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Uh, people, not only it's free to register a separate Gmail account for your webpage, Google mail has the best spam filtering I've ever seen in a mail service. Besides, if you don't put a mailto link on your website for optional feedback e-mails, why bother setting a site in the first place? Most personal sites I've seen have mailing links, which can be caught by spambot spiders anyway.

Personally, I find Google Pages a bit simplistic, but very easy to use. I'd have a homepage myself, if I weren't so lazy.

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09-16-2007 at 10:54 PM
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Elfstone
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Having a sleepless night so I thought I might as well do some work on the computer. I've got myself a gmail account and signed into the goggle-pages section only to discover that it doesn't work with Safari!!! So that's that then. :no :(

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09-18-2007 at 02:10 AM
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Jason
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Why not use free firefox?

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[Last edited by Jason at 09-18-2007 07:51 AM]
09-18-2007 at 07:49 AM
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Elfstone
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Jason wrote:
Why not use free firefox?

17 MB - that's why!! :w00t

Many thanks Jason, but downloading that would take until the middle of next week! :D

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09-18-2007 at 06:04 PM
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