Elfstone
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I would like to establish a web site, for professional reasons - not for family photos or pages of my poems, or such things. As many of you here know however, I am clueless about the innards of computers so I want to use a free (or at least reasonably priced) build-it-by-numbers type of system, where I am 'talked through' the process, so to speak. I would like to have a site that does not have adverts (does that rule out the 'free' part?) and looks . . . hmmmm, dignified maybe? I particularly need to have a section that is a message board - like the forums here, only very much 'smaller' - where other people can leave comments or have little discussions.

Can any of you offer any advice or point me in the right direction?

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Jason
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Are you planning to buy a domain name (you could have elfstone.com for example), or possibly a blogish type thing is maybe what you want. It depends exactly what you want on it. A blog includes an area to place comments, and you (the owner) make posts, kind of like here. In these posts, you could write, place images, etc. A free- non ad blog place is Blogspot.

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Briareos
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Jason wrote:
Are you planning to buy a domain name (you could have elfstone.com for example), or possibly a blogish type thing is maybe what you want. It depends exactly what you want on it. A blog includes an area to place comments, and you (the owner) make posts, kind of like here. In these posts, you could write, place images, etc. A free- non ad blog place is Blogspot.

I don't know about you, but when I think "professional web page" the word "blog" doesn't exactly come to mind.

Also, if she wants her own domain name for that page I don't think blogspot is going to work.

@Elfstone: Do I assume correctly that you want your page to have it's own domain, like www.elfstone.com? If so, the first thing you'd have to do is actually look for a webhost offer that suits you. Those often come with tools to (more of less easily) create your pages, at least around here.

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[Last edited by Briareos at 08-21-2007 12:53 PM]

Elfstone
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Many thanks for that quick reply Jason. I've had a look at your link and it seems straightforward, but I wonder about adverts? I really don't want adverts! That site also said nothing about space or bandwidth, which I gather are important.

I've also had a look at "spanglefish.com", "freewebs.com" and "webeden.co.uk" - the latter looked impressive - and it does seem that I have to pay to get rid of adverts. I think I quite like the idea of having a domain name, although at the moment I have no idea what exactly.

I'll go on researching; I don't want to sign up until a) I know that I have picked the right system and b) more importantly I am on the point of having broadband (at long last!), which should be in the next month or so.

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Elfstone
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Briareos wrote:

@Elfstone: . . . If so, the first thing you'd have to do is actually look for a webhost offer that suits you. . .

Thanks Briareos but, ummm, at the risk of looking very dense again! what's a "webhost offer"?

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eytanz
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Elfstone wrote:

Briareos wrote:

@Elfstone: . . . If so, the first thing you'd have to do is actually look for a webhost offer that suits you. . .

Thanks Briareos but, ummm, at the risk of looking very dense again! what's a "webhost offer"?

All websites are stored on a computer (called a server) somewhere. This is called hosting. When you access a website, you are getting information from the server that hosts it.

Most internet connections are not symmetrical. If you have broadband, it is set up to allow you to download (or receive) a lot of information fast, but it only allows you to upload (or send) a small amount of information. This is fine for normal uses - sending emails, filling in forms, letting websites know what you clicked on - but does not really allow you to send whole websites to other users (especially not if you have graphics, which almost all professional websites do these days). So even if you have a computer powerful enough to act as a server (which most modern computers are), you normally can't actually host your own websites at home since they will be too slow to use (also, it requires a lot of technical knowledge to set it up that way).

That's why almost all websites you see - except those owned by really large companies - are hosted by companies who make their living as website hosts, or a webhost. There are many such companies, and there's a lot of competition between them - the first thing you need to do is decide which one to use. This can get a bit complicated - there's a lot of competition so they all try to sweeten the deal by giving you bonuses such as website design tools and the like, or by special pricing schemes, and some of them are more reliable than others (you don't want your site to be down every third day, obviously). So your first step really needs to be deciding which one to use. The easiest way to do that is just find someone else with a website who is happy with it and ask them for recommendations. Unfortunately, I can't help you there as I don't operate a private website, but I'm sure other people here can help.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 08-21-2007 02:24 PM]

Elfstone
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Aha! - excellent answer eytanz - my thanks and a point to you!

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Elfstone
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Forgive me, but I really do feel that a modest announcement is in order; thanks to a lengthy conversation with Syntax in the game chat room last night, re this thread and associated matters,

I am now the proud possesor of a domain name!

I know that to those of you who live, eat, sleep, dream, talk, build and work computers, that will seem fairly inconsquential, but for this old lady it is a reasonably major achievement and quite remarkable given my state of computer ignorance whan I first joined this site.

Thanks to you all and in particular this time to Syntax, who displayed great patience and kindness in talking me through the procedure and finding the right places to go.


P.S. I don't really understand why more of you don't use the chat facility - it is a most convivial experience.

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Briareos
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Elfstone wrote:
I am now the proud possesor of a domain name!

Yay. Keep us updated on how it's going...

P.S. I don't really understand why more of you don't use the chat facility - it is a most convivial experience.

Well, call me an old fashioned old fart (as far as computer networks are concerned), but I don't exactly like all those newfangled "instant" forms of typed conversation. I rather prefer the old fashioned, message board-like forms, like this forum, or email, or newsgroups.

Dunno about the others, though...

np: Phillip Boa And The Voodooclub - Rome In The Rain (Funkstörung Remiks) (Viceversa)

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Dex Stewart
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As for me, the DROD window is never active for three continuos minutes, so people might get a bit angry at me for not responding.

Thet, and there's never anyone online when I am.

Syntax
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Dex Stewart wrote:
As for me, the DROD window is never active for three continuos minutes, so people might get a bit angry at me for not responding.

Thet, and there's never anyone online when I am.

Oh yeah? Just messaged you ingame

[EDIT]

Oh maybe you've turned off the ingame chat then Just wanted to point out I'm online quite often...

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[Last edited by Syntax at 08-22-2007 08:32 PM]

NiroZ
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My problem with the ingame chat is that I never know if I've been cut off or not.

Dex Stewart
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NiroZ wrote:
My problem with the ingame chat is that I never know if I've been cut off or not.

1) Press enter.
2) Input a forward slash ("/")
3) Press enter.

If you haven't been cut off, you'll get a message from the admin.

Very useful

mrimer
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Woah, that avatar threw me for a loop.

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Chaco
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mrimer here actually is a computer wizard

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Elfstone
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Chaco wrote:
mrimer here actually is a computer wizard

Thanks Chaco, and I suspected that, but I am also aware that he is a very busy wizard. Dealing with all the innards of DROD can't be a quick job I imagine and just looking though the Features Request board leaves me feeling a bit weary on his behalf! There are times when I think that computers and Balrogs aren't so very different.

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Tim
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Elfstone wrote:
I am now the proud possesor of a domain name!

Congrats. Now I need someone who can explain it to me.
(Sounds strange, but I find it hard to understand what is actually needed to host a page, or to get something hosted.)

Dex Stewart wrote:
As for me, the DROD window is never active for three continuos minutes, so people might get a bit angry at me for not responding.

Thet, and there's never anyone online when I am.

You shouldn't be afraid to start chatting, that's all.
In any case, if you can see my name on the Chat window, then I'm available for chatting.

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Briareos
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Tim wrote:
(Sounds strange, but I find it hard to understand what is actually needed to host a page, or to get something hosted.)

"It's so easy that a child could understand it... find me a child!"

Well, since you asked - in my case it's an 80EUR box that was originally meant as a Linux-based NAS device but now handles my home network's connection to the internet, plus an USB hard drive, running lighttpd as the server on Debian Unstable.

Granted, I'm not doing much with that page, but it's mine mine mine...

np: Visit Venus - Children Of The Rave Solution (Visited By Funkstörung) (Additional Productions)

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Tim
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Briareos wrote:
Well, since you asked - in my case it's an 80EUR box that was originally meant as a Linux-based NAS device but now handles my home network's connection to the internet, plus an USB hard drive, running lighttpd as the server on Debian Unstable.

Hmmm... That's a nice idea. I might need to find something similar

What I really want to know is, how to apply for a domain name. And how to make that name connected to that machine. How did you do it?

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Briareos
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Tim wrote:
What I really want to know is, how to apply for a domain name. And how to make that name connected to that machine. How did you do it?

http://www.no-ip.com/services/managed_dns/enhanced_dynamic_dns.html

That, and the DynDNS client they provide. Whenever my server boots (or my cable modem gets a new IP, or gets it's firmware updated, or reboots for some other reason), it'll report the new IP to No-IP which then update the DNS entry for leak.no-ip.org .

And the 9.95USD/year, obviously...

Sure, it's just a subdomain and not a real one, but it works for me...

np: Funkstörung - Dirt Empire (ft. Nils Petter Molvaer) (Disconnected)

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Elfstone
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I'm bumping this thread because, once again, I'm asking for help.

I have started building a website! At the moment it is really just an experiment - only a couple of pages - and I'm not sure whether I will keep it or scrap it and start a completely new one once I've got the hang of all the editing things.

What I would like to know is simply, does it work? If any of you have time, would you mind clicking on the link and telling me what, if anything, you can see? Thanks in advance.


The site is HERE

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Jason
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Nice! On the front page I can see the pretty font, title and the rock picture. I can also see one poem: "Once Seen..." I really like the organization and background! Nice work, Elfstone!

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Briareos
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I'm afraid to say it, but using Adobe Flash for the site's whole content is evil...

I'm afraid Jakob Nielsen is right, even though he's often talking a lot of rubbish himself...

np: Gui Boratto - Mr Decay (Robert Babicz Universum Disco Mix) (Kompakt Total 8 (Disc 2))

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Elfstone
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"Nice! On the front page I can see the pretty font, title and the rock picture. I can also see one poem: "Once Seen..." I really like the organization and background! Nice work, Elfstone!" Thanks Jason - that's good to know! That's all there is so far, but even getting that done successfully feels like a big achievement.

"I'm afraid to say it, but using Adobe Flash for the site's whole content is evil... " - gulp that is such a contrast to Jason's post! Briareos, I'm not sure if you are being serious or just teaasing me (lack of body language, tone etc) but may I say that I had no idea that I had used Adobe Flash . . . at all . . . for anything . . . ever! What's so bad about it (I'd better go and read your link) and, given that I didn't know I'd used it, how do I change it and... actually Jason didn't seem to mind it ?

Edit: good heavens Briareos! I tried to read that article, really I did! Well in fact I did read it in a way, but it made very little sense to me. I read things like "many Flash designers decrease the granularity of user control" and "many Flash designers introduce their own nonstandard GUI controls" and my eyes glazed over. I know about the granularity of sugar - I use several different types in baking - but "Granularity of user control"???
I also read "Local websites must enlist a Flash professional to translate content." must I? why? Oh help! I'm lost.

Curses - I thought I'd done rather well . . . that'll teach me to be smug!

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[Last edited by Elfstone at 09-13-2007 10:23 PM]

Maurog
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Well, how did you build the site in the first place? Because it does seem like one big Adobe FlashPlayer interactive object was embedded into an html page. Which is bad on so many levels... for example, I'm pretty sure that page loads the whole content all at once. That is, if you had 100 poems in there, it would load all 100 poems when loading the title page.

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Elfstone
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Maurog, you posted while I was reading Briareos's link and editing.

I built the site by editing, deleting and inserting (copying and pasting my poem for instance). I could choose colours, fonts and so on from a little box. It was a step by step process which seemed at the time to be relatively straightforward. I was feeling quite chuffed . . . half an hour ago. Oh well, back to the drawing board

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Briareos
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File: Webeden_degraded.png (26.8 KB)
Downloaded 62 times.
License: Public Domain

Elfstone wrote:
"I'm afraid to say it, but using Adobe Flash for the site's whole content is evil... " - gulp that is such a contrast to Jason's post! Briareos, I'm not sure if you are being serious or just teaasing me (lack of body language, tone etc) but may I say that I had no idea that I had used Adobe Flash . . . at all . . . for anything . . . ever! What's so bad about it (I'd better go and read your link) and, given that I didn't know I'd used it, how do I change it and... actually Jason didn't seem to mind it ?

Firstly, I hope this didn't come across as an attack against you or something like that. If it did - I'm very sorry about that...

This is all about the technology that needs to be used to even be able to see your page (or at least see it properly). I've attached an image of how your page will appear to someone that doesn't quite fit those requirements. It's not as bad as it could be with your page though as at least the text and images can still be viewed (which is also important for search engines, as those can't index Flash animations either), but I guess that's not exactly the presentation you had in mind.

Your page as it is almost totally relies on the Flash plugin from Adobe that kind-of embeds graphics, animations and sound into a rectangular area in a web page - I'm sure you've been to youtube.com or other movie sites on the web and most probably didn't even notice those pages utilizing the Flash plugin.

And for that kind of content, Flash is kinda neat and I quite like it for that. What's not so neat about it is when all content of a website is contained in a single Flash file running in the middle of your browser, which is kinda alien compared with other web sites:

* There's no way to bookmark individual pages (try it - go to your poem and add a bookmark for it in your browser; whenever you click on it you'll land on your site's start page)

* There is no way to search the content of your page; usually, you just hit Ctrl+F, type a word or two and hit enter to look for that word in a page - that doesn't work with Flash either

* There's a lot of text you can't mark and copy - take the words on your welcome page for example; all you can select is the gray text in the middle

* Any and all tools you've installed in your browser, or even the browser's context menu, won't work within a Flash animation. Say I really like that image on your welcome page - there's no way to just right-click on it and choose "Save as..." as usual

That said, your content is fine. It's just that it's not a web page (or rather, not a collection of HTML pages that web sites usually consist of) - it's a lone Flash animation in the middle of a single page of HTML.

I don't know what exactly you were using to create those pages, but it would definitely help if it were a tool that created "proper" HTML pages instead of something that looks mostly similar, but is not quite the same. I'm afraid I can't really give you suggestions for a tool to create such a site, as I usually build my pages from the ground up in a text editor - but maybe someone else here can recommend one or three...

np: Mapstation - Warm Distance (Distance Told Me Things To Be Said)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

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[Last edited by Briareos at 09-13-2007 11:01 PM]

Elfstone
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Briareos many thanks for such a fulsome reply, almost all of which did make sense to my technophobe brain.

This however "It's just that it's not a web page (or rather, not a collection of HTML pages that web sites usually consist of) - it's a lone Flash animation in the middle of a single page of HTML." - I don't have any animation - nor will I. ( I really don't like the animated avatars that one sees around here) So that puzzles me.

"I don't know what exactly you were using to create those pages" Actually I don't either. All the bits an pieces are already there in webeden - I just had to choose the colours and fonts and move blocks of text around (which I copied and pasted from Appleworks). It all seemed very simple. I don't remember seeing anything about HTML anywhere on their site. I'm sorry I can't be more specific.

So . . . . what do I do now? How do I make pages that aren't Flash?

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Briareos
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Elfstone wrote:
This however "It's just that it's not a web page (or rather, not a collection of HTML pages that web sites usually consist of) - it's a lone Flash animation in the middle of a single page of HTML." - I don't have any animation - nor will I. ( I really don't like the animated avatars that one sees around here) So that puzzles me.

Well, that's "animation" as often used in the sense of "a Flash object" (like this but displaying your site instead) - a simple rectangular area in the page that is "taken over" by the Flash plugin to display it's content; what you have here is kinda a "browser in your browser" that simply works completely different to normal pages since it is something completely different...

I hope this clears that up a bit... but now I really got to go to sleep... g'night everyone...

____________________________
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Kevin_P86
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It seems this hosting site that Elfstone uses creates flash pages by default. It says you can upload .html files, but this is not the default - simply using this "Sitemaker" software will create a flash page.

This hosting site also seems to hold flash and flash pages in a rather high regard:

(Taken from their site, which I COULDN'T just copy and paste, by the way)

What is Flash?

Flash is a technology developed over many years by Macromedia Inc, one of the Internet's most influential companies. It allows us to create a more highly interactive and graphical environment for your sites than HTML - which is what most websites use. That's what makes SiteMaker sites look unique.

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