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8.7/10 (47 votes)
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Author Name:Zch and Kallor
Submitted By:Kallor
Hold Name:Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex
Theme:different themes
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Number of Levels:8
Number of Rooms:227
Number of Monsters:3501
Version:DROD: Journey to Rooted Hold
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Hold Karma:15 (+15 / -0)
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File: dewmc.hold (873.2 KB)
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icon Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex  
This hold is actually made by Zch and Kallor together. We tried to have some new ideas, rooms like you have not seen before. Also there is lots of secret stuff in the hold. And we made the levels look pretty. Hope you try it out and enjoy it.
05-10-2007 at 02:43 AM
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Rabscuttle
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
You should play this hold.
05-10-2007 at 03:23 AM
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Ezlo
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
That's a recommendation if I've ever heard one.

*Downloaded*
05-10-2007 at 03:29 AM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
Hah! 16 #1s so far! (Yeah, 'cause that's gonna last.)

The Misty Maze of Find Your Way To Another Entrance is slowly driving me insane. But there's been a lot of good stuff so far, so.
05-10-2007 at 09:58 AM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (+1)  
This is an awesome hold, guaranteed to keep you busy for a good long time.

I give it five brains and a ten for fun. (I would actually mark it a 9.5, because there are a few too many Lights-Out puzzles for my taste, but the fact that the levels are so visually pleasing is a plus also.)

Josh

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05-10-2007 at 02:33 PM
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Pilchard VIII
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
9.5/10?!!1

Bare clickage on the file...

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05-10-2007 at 03:52 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
This is an extremely interesting hold. The first couple of levels seem mostly to be all about planning and room states - and there's a lot of that in the second level.

Some rooms could really use checkpoints, but there aren't a whole lot of tedious rooms.

Some rooms are terribly arduous to execute, however, even if you come in from the correct entrance (which is usually extremely easy to see; it's always that small passage with force arrows such that you can only come in from another room). MMM 2S comes readily to mind. I don't hate them, but I find them less fun than they could be.

Please be careful with those trapdoors. You're doing really well so far but if these huge path puzzles continue I may get somewhat frustrated.

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05-11-2007 at 12:48 AM
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Milarion
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
I see that you weren't kidding about this being a Mega Complex; I've seen a lot of well-crafted rooms, even though I'm only just wrapping up the second level.

quote:
Chaco wrote:
Some rooms are terribly arduous to execute, however, even if you come in from the correct entrance (which is usually extremely easy to see; it's always that small passage with force arrows such that you can only come in from another room). MMM 2S comes readily to mind. I don't hate them, but I find them less fun than they could be.



I'd just like to amplify Chaco's point; I personally had to restart that room repeatedly, after dozens or hundreds of moves each time.

Click here to view the secret text

1s1e
Click here to view the secret text

3s1e
Click here to view the secret text

I've managed to get to the proper start of 2s3w, and it's imposing enough that I've quit for the night. Again it looks like I'm going to feel deprived in checkpoint terms, although at least it looks possible to hit it _before_ I've done all the trickiest stuff.

I've gotten a blast out of some of the efficiency rooms, and I'm enjoying this hold enough to continue despite the occasional urge to smash my monitor. Good work!
05-11-2007 at 05:23 AM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
I've been taking screenshots and drawing on them in MSPaint, sometimes redrawing them schematically. It helps. (Of course, it's also the sort of thing I enjoy.)
05-11-2007 at 06:04 AM
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Neather2
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The hold it's really interesting.

Fun and difficulty. Complete. Only finish first 2 rooms -_-
I give it 8 and 9 brains.

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Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.
05-11-2007 at 06:58 AM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (+1)  
One thing that I think bears mentioning about this hold: While great effort was taken to ensure that there are no serious backtracking issues, there is at least one room that you encounter at the beginning of the hold that, if you solve it right then, you will be unable to do something minor at the end of the hold.

Click here to view the secret text


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"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck
05-11-2007 at 02:54 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
I'd like to make another statement now that I've gone to the third level of madness in this hold.

Happiness Is a State of Mind : 2 South, 2 West is a perfect example of the type of room I'm talking about that needs checkpoints. It's a puzzle room that actually needs some careful manipulation and planning, as well as a realization. However, it's a fairly long room as far as I can tell, and a small mistake may not be immediately obvious within a move.

It's a well-designed room with some cunningly-placed traps, but I really don't want to have to redo the first two queens every time one of the remaining two goes into a trap. However, I must tread onwards with optimism, if only so I can see a 6x6 lights out on the next level or something.

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05-11-2007 at 10:08 PM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
I would inform this hold's author that checkpoints can be added to a hold while screwing up nothing whatsoever at all, even after posting to Holds, and thus he could be more liberal with them.
quote:
jbluestein wrote:
Click here to view the secret text

What, mastery won't win editing rights?

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 05-11-2007 10:48 PM]
05-11-2007 at 10:44 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
quote:
Jatopian wrote:
quote:
jbluestein wrote:
Click here to view the secret text

What, mastery won't win editing rights?


Nope. It's a 'Creator-only' edit.

Josh

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05-12-2007 at 02:31 AM
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silver
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File: yatp.jpg (37.8 KB)
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License: Public Domain
icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (+4)  
I found a couple grammatical errors, but forgot where they were because I was busy conquerating the hold. mastered and fully explored -- nice job, especially for a first hold. could have used some more checkpoints here and there (the humor room you made from poor checkpoint placement wasn't worth it).


the sewers were rather impressive, very much what I wanted to make in my own hold, but I wasn't nearly clever enough.

three times as fun was just freaking brilliant. very impressive work.

all in all, I rated it rather highly. amazing first job and I hope the authors continue to write in the future.

Click here to view the secret text


eventually someone will thank me for the attached diagram. when they get to the point where it matters :)


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:yinyang

[Last edited by silver at 05-12-2007 08:36 AM]
05-12-2007 at 08:13 AM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (+1)  
Hello everybody, thanks for downloading and playing a lot.
Some notes (spoiler alert !!!):

MMM 2s:
Click here to view the secret text


HISM 2s2w:
Ok, we have no excuse :blush
Checkpoint doesn't look good there or something. Sorry, it's a hard room, maybe in a wrong way.

CHECKMATE (serious spoiler warning !!!):
Click here to view the secret text


NUMBERS (serious spoiler warning !!!):
Click here to view the secret text


SCROLL SILVER MENTIONED
Click here to view the secret text


Ok, that's all for now. Hope you cope up with us, just use your brains and think. It's not that hard :P
Have fun!

-Kallor

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Kallor

[Last edited by Kallor at 05-12-2007 09:26 AM]
05-12-2007 at 09:13 AM
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silver
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
quote:
Kallor wrote:
SCROLL SILVER MENTIONED
Click here to view the secret text




Click here to view the secret text


anyway, as I said, great hold. well done.


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:yinyang
05-12-2007 at 09:37 AM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (+1)  
Still about the scroll:
Click here to view the secret text

Sorry about chatting publicly secret private stuff with silver, maybe I should PM this, but no.

-Kallor

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Kallor

[Last edited by Kallor at 05-14-2007 01:28 PM]
05-12-2007 at 09:44 AM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
quote:
Kallor wrote:
Still about the scroll:
Click here to view the secret text

Sorry about chatting publicly secret private stuff with silver, maybe I should PM this, but no.

-Kalle


Click here to view the secret text


Josh

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05-12-2007 at 02:57 PM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
It is a nice hold, right? You don't have to solve the rooms in a particular order, right? I'm thinking of The Misty Maze of Mystery 3N 1E, and the exit that requires you to keep the mother alive. I don't have to take that way? (if so I must replay lots of rooms).

Edit: Pheuw! There wheren't any problems :)

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 05-12-2007 05:56 PM]
05-12-2007 at 03:27 PM
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silver
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
quote:
jbluestein wrote:
it's a secret room, and so the HoM wouldn't be accessible until it was solved.



y'know. that did strike me as odd -- that it said "secret room!" with the music after I entered from the master-door side. weird bug, but it wasn't even on my map until then.


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05-12-2007 at 07:26 PM
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Remlin
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
The nice gentleman in the sewers asked to report 'incidents' on the forums...

In 1N1E it's possible to clear the guards and use the western or either southeastern exit on your first visit to the room. This leads to some wackiness in 1E such as Halph talking even though he's not in the room, and makes it impossible to reach the sewer exit (I think).

There was at least one other room where the guards are killable, but it didn't let me skip paths like in 1N1E.
05-13-2007 at 09:12 AM
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Tahnan
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quote:
Remlin wrote:
In 1N1E it's possible to clear the guards and use the western or either southeastern exit on your first visit to the room. This leads to some wackiness in 1E such as Halph talking even though he's not in the room, and makes it impossible to reach the sewer exit (I think).
Is that what's going wrong for me? I was wondering why I'm having positively no luck exiting this room. I even restored to "Room Start", but perhaps it didn't take me to the right start of the room.

[Insert complaints here about the restore system and re-entering rooms.]

Now I have to figure out how to get into that room properly. Sigh.
05-13-2007 at 10:21 AM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
Regarding the Sewers:

Played as intended, you should exit the sewers without actually conquering a single room. The intention was that it be impossible to conquer any rooms in the Sewers...

Click here to view the secret text


But if you're succeeding in conquering rooms there on your first visit, you've probably found a bug.

Josh

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05-13-2007 at 07:36 PM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (+2)  
Yeah, I realized in retrospect that that's what was intended. Unfortunately, yes, it proved quite possible to take an unintended exit out of 1N1E. Specifically...

Click here to view the secret text

05-13-2007 at 11:52 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
quote:
Tahnan wrote:
Yeah, I realized in retrospect that that's what was intended. Unfortunately, yes, it proved quite possible to take an unintended exit out of 1N1E. Specifically...

Click here to view the secret text



That's unfortunate. We caught one unintended solution...looks like you found another. (Don't do that!)

Josh

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05-14-2007 at 02:32 AM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
Hey, I wasn't trying to! Heck, I thought that was how you were supposed to get out, since there was no way to get Halph to hit that southern orb.
05-14-2007 at 06:48 AM
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silver
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
hrm. I got halph to hit the orb that I needed him to hit... but in order to get him to do so and live I needed to cut off a route (i.e. drop one trapdoor at the beginning of the route)


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05-14-2007 at 07:18 AM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (0)  
This is most disturbing... an unintended solution :~(
Or even two? You made me a very sad guy.
We were aware of the fact that if one abuses a bug, he/she cannot exit sewers. It was too difficult to fix it so that you can exit after finding an unintended solution. An ultimate life insurance for the guards. However, if you find a bug, it should be quite obvious why you can't proceed, just conquer the rooms as they are supposed to (I think it should be trivial to see if the solution is unintended, comprare it to solutions of the previous rooms with the same theme).
By the way, congratulations for outsmarting us :)
How about the other room Remlin mentioned where the guards were killable? I can't find it (obviously, I'm blind to my own errors), does anyone know where it is?

-Kallor

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Kallor

[Last edited by Kallor at 05-14-2007 01:59 PM]
05-14-2007 at 01:37 PM
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Remlin
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icon Re: Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex (+1)  
quote:
Kallor wrote:How about the other room Remlin mentioned where the guards were killable?

1N3E. It's easy to kill the guards while standing on the trapdoor path, if you stand by a corner. Also in 1E and 1S1E it's possible to kill some (but not all) of the guards and still exit.

I don't think those rooms are problems though, since you can't jump paths like in 1N1E. Maybe it detracts from the eloquence a little, but after the big run around the outer sewer it feels good to get to kill a couple of guards.

[Last edited by Remlin at 05-14-2007 03:25 PM]
05-14-2007 at 03:24 PM
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