zaubberer
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 251
Registered: 03-29-2005
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well, i think i figured out the general idea of the solution.


zaubberer
(TCB: three rooms left...)

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[Last edited by zaubberer at 05-01-2007 01:07 PM : yet a typo again]

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
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That sounds like a great plan, but I couldn't get it to work fast enough either. Your idea about getting the builders to stop working on the walls is on the right track.

zaubberer
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 251
Registered: 03-29-2005
IP: Logged

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×I got them to stop working altogether

Click here to view the secret text

×by letting the tar grow

Click here to view the secret text

×so they couldn't get to the last piece of wall they wanted to build.

but this will not free the adder!

zaubberer

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
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That part comes next (in my solution, at least)



EDIT: I just looked at some of the other victory demos for this room, and other folks did not solve it this way. They did not stop the builders at all.

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[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 05-01-2007 01:41 PM]

zaubberer
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 251
Registered: 03-29-2005
IP: Logged

ok, sounds fine, but i can't avoid that the builders open the wall again. this would be not a problem if the evil eyes that looking through would be looking diagonally, but they not all do so.

i'll try it again later...

zaubberer

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
IP: Logged

Maybe you'll prefer another method of solving the room. Look carefully at the checkpoints...

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[Last edited by CuriousShyRabbit at 05-01-2007 01:56 PM]

zaubberer
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 251
Registered: 03-29-2005
IP: Logged

ok, now this seems to be the last room to solve in TCB at all. could someone explain it some more please?

zaubberer

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
IP: Logged

To lead you towards the other solution...

The builders do the same thing they did in the other version of this room.

There's something special about the checkpoints.

Hope this is more helpful

zaubberer
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 251
Registered: 03-29-2005
IP: Logged

i just don't like tryin' anymore!

...maybe nor for long....

thanks to the team for deciding to publishing this room not as required!!!!!

zaubberer

junglejane
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 55
Registered: 11-15-2006
IP: Logged

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
To lead you towards the other solution...

The builders do the same thing they did in the other version of this room.

Click here to view the secret text

×They put up the walls, take them down, put them up, take them down, put them up, take them down, etc etc

There's something special about the checkpoints.

Click here to view the secret text

×When the walls are down, the evil eyes can't see you there.

Click here to view the secret text

×I noticed the other people who solved this room hit 5 a whole lot...

Hope this is more helpful

I, like Zaubberer, have lost patience with this room. The only room, other than this, that I appear to have left to do is 3N. That one really has me baffled. I have a feeling that if I finish 3N2E, that one may take care of itself. To finish 3N2E, I need more than the subtle hints I have read here so far. What do you mean that others hit "5" a whole lot? Help me please.

____________________________
I keep six honest serving-men
(They taught me all I knew);
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who..... Rudyard Kipling

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
IP: Logged

Why players press 5 (wait) alot:

I went back and redid this room some time ago, and I still found my original method to be "easier". That "easier" means "possible" but still a pain. You will need to press 'R' alot to get it right.

Once you've gotten this far, you shouldn't have trouble with the rest.

junglejane
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 55
Registered: 11-15-2006
IP: Logged

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Why players press 5 (wait) alot:

Click here to view the secret text

×When too much wall is opened up, they sit on a checkpoint and wait there until the builders put the wall back up.

I went back and redid this room some time ago, and I still found my original method to be "easier". That "easier" means "possible" but still a pain. You will need to press 'R' alot to get it right.

Click here to view the secret text

×Let the tar grow so one builder is trapped in a corner, waiting to put the last square of wall up.

Click here to view the secret text

×Remove the tar, freeing that builder last. After the last blob is gone, the black sister gate goes up, and you can stop worrying about the eyes.

Click here to view the secret text

×However, in this version of the room, the adder can't help you cut the tar. That is where some trial and error comes in. You must kill the mother only when Beethro can remove all the tar himself. I had to try several times killing the mother after letting the tar grow differently to achieve this. It was hard.

Once you've gotten this far, you shouldn't have trouble with the rest.

Thanks for your reply. It gives me another approach to try. The reason I did not understand "5" is that I had changed it under my settings to "W" for wait.

____________________________
I keep six honest serving-men
(They taught me all I knew);
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who..... Rudyard Kipling

junglejane
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 55
Registered: 11-15-2006
IP: Logged

I am ready to give up. I am unable to get the tar to grow enough. The builders get blocked and stop building. Is a demo possible?

____________________________
I keep six honest serving-men
(They taught me all I knew);
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who..... Rudyard Kipling

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[Last edited by junglejane at 07-09-2007 09:08 PM]

schep
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 865
Registered: 03-01-2005
IP: Logged

File: TCB The Undercity 3N2E Victory.demo (7.8 KB)
Downloaded 169 times.
License: Public Domain

Sure thing. This is similar to what CuriousShyRabbit described, but it doesn't sound exactly the same. It did take me several tries to get Step One to work out. And then of course Step Two is quite a bit of calculation and/or trial-and-error.

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[Last edited by schep at 07-10-2007 01:44 AM]

junglejane
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 55
Registered: 11-15-2006
IP: Logged

schep wrote:
Sure thing. This is similar to what CuriousShyRabbit described, but it doesn't sound exactly the same. It did take me several tries to get Step One to work out. And then of course Step Two is quite a bit of calculation and/or trial-and-error.

You will never know how much I appreciate seeing your demo. I was approaching the room completely wrong. Going immediately to the tar did not work for me. I can't wait to give your approach a try.

Edited to say I conquered it, and it was fun. FUN, once I got a clue on how to start.

____________________________
I keep six honest serving-men
(They taught me all I knew);
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who..... Rudyard Kipling

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[Last edited by junglejane at 07-10-2007 08:07 PM]

Camwoodstock
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 115
Registered: 07-02-2014
IP: Logged

Please, send help. I don't know what kind. ANY help, because I don't know where to start. Before I get to step 2, the builders are trapped and so am I, in the blue, sticky mothingness. I don't even want a demo. If you're gonna go that mile, just go the extra yard and put it on YouTube so I can rewind it.

Current Stage of Grief: Bargaining.
Current Thoughts: DROD was a mistake.

____________________________
Camwoodstock - The Epic Blunder, Dugan's Best Janitor, Rooted Hold Runner, Lowest Point Watcher, and 132nd Skywatcher (and 13th Gel Authority)
Mastered all of GatEB, KDD 2.0, JtRH, and TCB! | Saw The Second Sky! (lots of secrets left!)

Her/him | & | Steam | Backloggery

KainXVIII
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 11-10-2018
IP: Logged

How to (easily) make sure that after i cut mother tar i will be able to clean all the tar too without leaving 2x2 blobs?

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 09-10-2004
IP: Logged

If you search the forums for "invariant" you should find a thread about tar cutting. Read that for the "why"

Here is the how:

Turn on the grid with f3.
Take a screenshot, stick it in a paint program or similar.
Put alternating colored dots (like a checkerboard) on the intersections of the grid inside the tar.
Count how many dots of each colour you have.
If they are not equal, it can't be cleared. If they are equal, it probably can be cleared (although a really wonky shape can still mess things up)
If the number is off by 1, then you can possibly fix it if you can stab an eye in the right way - you'll need to stab it on a corner. (A normal stab on the tar edge removes two tile corners inside the tar, a stab on the tar corner removes one - you have to make sure the 'colour' of the internal corner is the one there's too many of)

KainXVIII
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 11-10-2018
IP: Logged

Rabscuttle wrote:
If you search the forums for "invariant" you should find a thread about tar cutting. Read that for the "why"

Here is the how:

Turn on the grid with f3.
Take a screenshot, stick it in a paint program or similar.
Put alternating colored dots (like a checkerboard) on the intersections of the grid inside the tar.
Count how many dots of each colour you have.
If they are not equal, it can't be cleared. If they are equal, it probably can be cleared (although a really wonky shape can still mess things up)
If the number is off by 1, then you can possibly fix it if you can stab an eye in the right way - you'll need to stab it on a corner. (A normal stab on the tar edge removes two tile corners inside the tar, a stab on the tar corner removes one - you have to make sure the 'colour' of the internal corner is the one there's too many of)

Ooook, but that's like opposite of easy in my opinion
Is there ANOTHER way (faster) to know that you can't clear all the tar? Because if not i will forced to follow demo step by step (which is pain in the arse)

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[Last edited by KainXVIII at 11-18-2019 02:42 PM]

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 09-10-2004
IP: Logged

The simplest rule is: If you have a rectangle of tar, it's clearable if at least one side is odd.

Another simplish rule is: If the rectangle has a 1x1 square missing from the corner, or an extra 2x1 bit hanging off a corner, e.g.

xxxx
xxxx
xxx
xxx

then that switches the clearability. i.e. a 3x4 rectangle is clearable, but the shape above with the extra bit is not clearable.

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For the room in question, if you want to know if the tar is clearable, once you kill the mother, ignore the EEs and just try to clear it. You don't need to actually clear all of it to check, if you can break it into clearable rectangles, then the whole thing is clearable.
So if it's clearable, then you can just undo until the eyes are sleeping again and then do it again carefully.
If it's not clearable, then you'll need to go back and kill the mother differently or change things on the last spawn.

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[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 11-18-2019 10:13 PM]

KainXVIII
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 11-10-2018
IP: Logged

Rabscuttle wrote:
If it's not clearable, then you'll need to go back and kill the mother differently or change things on the last spawn.

That's what i do past several hours So glad that devs get rid of tar in drod sequels (i hope at least).

KainXVIII
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 11-10-2018
IP: Logged

File: TCB The Undercity 3N2E Victory.demo (14.7 KB)
Downloaded 60 times.
License: Public Domain

So in the end i used another strategy (go for the mother eyes as fast as possible)