StuartK
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In NoahTs hold (Nanfro Budkins Dungeon) demos from this hold play automatically on the main screen. For every other hold I've tested, this does not happen. How did he do that? Bug, feature, or what? Are demos ever supposed to be included as part of a hold export?

(edit) OK, it appears the current version of the hold doesn't include the demos (I've still got the older one which does) but my question still stands...


In The_Red_Hawks hold (Deep Hold III) on the second level, if you go to the room south of the entrance, you can't go back north again, despite there being nothing blocking the way. Very strange. I haven't done alot of testing of this one, due to the difficulty of reaching this point. I can supply .dats if they're of use, and to save time.

[Edited by StuartK on 09-10-2003 at 06:32 AM]

The_Red_Hawk
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I discovered that too, while playtesting. Since the level exit is to the northwest of the entrance, it is not accessible by any other way, so the next version will have an extra entrance to that area.

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Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Mattcrampy
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Turns out this is an undocumented feature. Try playing through your hold, then go to a room and look at the demos recorded. There's a check box allowing these to be played from the title screen if your hold's active.

I think there's 5 people, as of writing, who know that. That is, me, Noah, whoever did Kurath's Temple, Mike and Erik. Anyone else who knew, step forward and claim your eliteness.

Matt

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Schik
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I knew, I've just never released a hold to demonstrate that knowledge. Do I get a medal or something?


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eytanz
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I knew about it. I just never had occasion to use it because I didn't write demos for my holds.

By the way, I don't think discussion of this feature should be allowed to obscure the bug in Deep Hold III, which is a potentially important one.

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The_Red_Hawk
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Then how do I solve it?


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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Oneiromancer
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Hawk, they were referring to the demo problem being solved, not the movement problem in your hold. Mattcrampy didn't specify what he was referring to in his response, which probably confused you. The problem you have may be an actual bug, and you may want to e-mail what happens to bugs@drod.net to make sure it is brought to someone's attention.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

mrimer
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I'm on the case: I've entered that bug in the DB (can't reenter the entrance room of level 2). I know what's causing it and will have it fixed for the next build.

[Edited by mrimer on 09-11-2003 at 03:52 AM]

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StuartK
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mrimer wrote:
I'm on the case: I've entered that bug in the DB (can't reenter the entrance room of level 2). I know what's causing it and will have it fixed for the next build.

[Edited by mrimer on 09-11-2003 at 03:52 AM]

I've read the report text... For the benefit of the group, if snakes start on the edge of the room, the check to see if the way is blocked when returning from the next room is performed, whether the snake room has been completed or not.

What of the situation where snakes are at the edge of the screen at the room start, but Beethro exits before completing the room? If he then tries to reenter, either his way will be blocked, or he'll be standing ontop of a snake.

It might be better for hold authors not to place snakes on the edges of rooms at all, to avoid these anomalies. OTOH, in a room with multiple entrances, it might be fun to hide secrets this way... i.e. Beethros way is blocked, but is it blocked all the way around the room?

[Edited by StuartK on 09-11-2003 at 05:26 PM]

eytanz
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I think that putting snakes on room edges and thereby making rooms you can't return to if you didn't beat them falls under bad design, not a bug. And I strongly believe (as I have argued in the past) that it's not the game's job to prevent anyone who wants to from creating badly designed holds. Maybe there are good uses for snakes at room edges that at the moment we just lack the imagination to see, and tomorrow's new player will make a great hold using them?

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The_Red_Hawk
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So then I should change the level 2 entrance room?

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Oneiromancer
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The_Red_Hawk, you can wait until the next build and see what the fix is...in all likelihood, the fix would be not to allow snakes to be placed on the outer edge of a room, or at the very least to put a red square on the adjacent room to warn the builder that the way into that room is blocked. So you probably should just move the serpents now.

Or, Mike just might change the way DROD detects what's in the next room based on its current state, and not the way the room started out. In which case you would probably be okay, but as eytanz implied, what if someone leaves that room without beating it, and tries to get back? Then they can't get back in no matter what Mike does, unless you do this on purpose and put another way back in.

I was wondering about a way of controlling the order in which Beethro enters rooms through a series of serpents...when you enter the room you are right in the break between serpents and you have to move to the next exit and get out. It wouldn't be necessary to make this on the extreme outer edge of the room though...but I don't know if I would disallow it on principle, as long as you designed the adjacent rooms intelligently.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams