BDR
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Four years ago, I got a computer. So far, it's not been the most exceptional computer, but it did the job for all the games I had to throw at it. Then, I found Max Payne 2. And I found that the video card that came with the computer was not good enough. So, I upgraded my video card. Then, not too long after that (maybe a year or so), I got Psychonauts. I had heard many good things about it and was happy. Then I found that the video card I'd gotten earlier wasn't good enough for this game, either. This saddened me, and I decided that I had had enough of trying to keep up with the PC market (actually, I think I'm probably going to take a break with trying to get new consoles too and just get new games for the ones I already have).

However, I still want to play Psychonauts (and hopefully Thief 3 too, which I just recently got). This has been a problem for over a year and I haven't really done much about it because...

1. Work is one of those bad four letter words in my book.
2. Procrastination is a way of life (an unfortunate circumstance).
3. I don't make a lot of sticky notes to myself, and when I try I tend to ignore them afterwards if there's no big penalties attached.

Computer hardware, however, is not something I have a firm grasp on. I can sort of think of or dig up things to try for troubleshooting software, but hardware is in another realm. This makes upgrading rather difficult as I get slightly confused and unsure when I try to look at the various listings for video card requirements and reviews, and even if I did get a card I'd still have some issues as opening up my computer is a bit.. er, scary. All those wires and things.. I worry about breaking it all and having to get back around 45 gigs worth of stuff, as well as a new computer is not an appealing thought.

So, I could use your help. My computer specs are here, and the only things I've changed (not personally, I had help) were the video card (a NVIDIA Geforce 4 MX 440 with AGP 8x) and putting in an Ethernet card so I could use DSL (which I later found I didn't need, thanks to a wireless receiver getting the signal from a more recently purchased computer). What video card would be the best value (and work in my computer)? And, er.. is there a good guide for a person afraid of damaging their computer innards to walk them through something like this? I tried looking once but only found some that assumed basic knowledge of opening the case (I have opened it up once with my cousin's help and I believe I could do it again, but after that I'd be a little lost). Don't laugh, I've read some of the stories at rinkworks.. I'd rather keep my computer working than mess with the stuff inside and screw it up because I didn't have a clue where to start. Any help would be appreciated.

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[Last edited by BDR at 01-02-2007 09:05 PM]

Syntax
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[For the remainder of this article, "GFX" means "graphics"]

Very difficult to answer. Have you tried playing either game? Do they run at all or just slowly?

The good thing with technology is the longer you wait, the cheaper components get.
The problem with technology is the longer you wait, the usable components you could use on your system, you no longer can as the system itself can no longer handle them.

I'm sure Moore had something to say about that.

Anyways... you're right to have upgraded your initial GFX card as the original one can't have been much good at all as it was onboard and had basically no RAM. Full systems tend to always be shipped with base GFX cards, as these components are quickly becoming the more expensive. Top end ones can easily be half the value of the entire PC. They play safe and maybe that's a good thing.

Anyways, I'd be intrigued as to what you have now... and assume it's an AGP. AGP is basically "Advanced Graphics Port" but Moore's law dictates that that isn't enough so since then you've got AGP 2x, AGP 4x, AGP 8x and no idea what it is currently. The important thing for you is you need an AGP 4x as per your spec. All this represents is basically the speed of flow of information between the GFX card and your system. It's basically the hub size of your car so must match or the wheels don't fit.

What's then important is how quickly the GFX card can actually do stuff. This is where RAM plays a huge part (even more so than the rest most of the time). If you check the Psychonauts recommended requirements at the bottom, they say 128MB. I'd seriously recommend 256MB as these are probably similarly priced.

Before I move on to the GFX chipset, the other pretty damn important thing to at least match is the CPU speed (the main speed). You've got 2.4GHZ. Psychonauts recommends 2GHZ and Thief 3 recommends 2.4GHZ. *Never* settle for a minimum spec system. It will mean turning off all quality. Always go for the recommended one at least. In this case you're obviously covered so no need to change your entire system just yet

So back to the GFX cards. There are, and hopefully always will be 2 camps on the chipset front. GeForce and Nvidia. To be honest, it won't actually make a difference which you choose. It always depends on the game type, the graphic setting type etc Of equal chipset comparaison, 1 may be 1% better at this game, whilst this other 1 will be 1% better at redrawing a spreadsheet in ultra high res. What's important is just the general level of the chipset. Similar to your system's GHZ, GFX's too have their speed measurement except they're hidden behind all these marketing numbers often followed by words like "Ultra" and "Fx". Sorry, I'm blabbering but the pitfalls really annoy me.

Soooo... Yes. Both games have as their recommended GFX card the GeForce FX 5600. I'm amazed they still get away with that. Never ever ever fall for the FX 5600 trick. They all use it. I've got one sitting here right now and I'll gladly send it to you for free *and* pay for the posting if it means you educating others how bad an experience you had. *Up from* the 5600 is where you want to be.

So, to conclude, I would personally recommend a 4x AGP GeForce 6600 with 256 RAM. It's what I've been running for over a year and even the ubiquitous Far Cry and Doom 3 both run smoothly in high res and they're serious GFX stranglers. Depends on your budget really but also bear in mind that the 6600 will also play most other FPS games and such out there at the moment. My computer speed is faster than yours, and I am running an 8x AGP so you may not quite see what I see but it should be fine. For reference, I paid 110 GBP for my 6600 a year ago.

If it's too expensive, go for the GeForce 6200. It'll be absolutely fine for the 2 games you mention. If you're feeling a bit more frivoulous, grab the 6800 or the 6600 with 512MB Ram instead (though that won't make too much difference as the 4x AGP will be struggling to keep up then).

As for fitting I'd obviously recommend seeking expert advice... nah, forget that. It's easy. Slot the other one out (assuming it's currently AGP), and slot the new one in. Done. You will need to have an extra little power cable to plug into the new one as it has a fan but all devices (apart for the floppy drive for the pedantic ones) share exactly the same power supply cables. I wouldn't ever dare try and change a tyre on a car, but I've built hundreds of PCs and have only damaged 1... by dropping the whole thing.

Obviously, on the last point, I'll gladly talk you through in more thorough steps if required

So, in order:
4x AGP GeForce 6600 256 RAM (for reasons stated above)
4x AGP GeForce 6200 256 RAM

[EDIT]

Erm... if any ladies are reading this, I can actually change a tyre on a car... I was just kinda, erm, joking in a non-geeky way.

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[Last edited by Syntax at 01-02-2007 10:34 PM]

BDR
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Alright, what about ATI cards? There'sone I'm looking at right now that seems on par with my system (there's a neat Upgrade Advisor that can match cards to specs, and Nvidia unfortunately didn't have that). And I thought GeForce cards were Nvidia cards... or is there some other sort of GeForce card out there?

Where would I be able to buy/find this extra power cable anyway?

Psychonauts doesn't run and IIRC says I need Pixel Shader 1.1. I haven't installed Thief 3 yet.

As for what level of AGP I have, my card says it's 8x (as mentioned near the bottom of my post) but it must support 4x as well (or my actual box specs in that area are different).

My budget's in the $100-200 region. I haven't tried converting your price yet to U.S. dollars but it's probably not too different from the things I've seen so far (which fall within the $100-200 region nicely).

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[Last edited by BDR at 01-02-2007 10:59 PM]

Elfstone
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Syntax wrote:
Erm... if any ladies are reading this, I can actually change a tyre on a car... I was just kinda, erm, joking in a non-geeky way.

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Syntax
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First, for that budget, you can get a card that will at least last a year. I spent the top end of that a year ago on my 6600 and... still no problems. All this assuming a 1:2 GBP/USD ratio.

You're absolutely right on my GeForce v Nvidia above. It's indeed Nvidia v ATI I've never used ATI (though I believe I had an ATI ISA card with 64K back in 96). All I can say on the choice between the the brands is that it's really that... your choice. There won't be much difference *as long as you can weigh up RAM, AGP speed and marketing garbage*. I recommend GeForce 6600 as it will be excellent for your games and more importantly, because I use that card and am very pleased with it.

The ATI card you're looking at beats mine hands down so yeah... that will even do you fine for Thief 4 *and* 5. I would just make very sure that you've got 8x AGP on your motherboard. The spec you posted said 4x. This means an 8x will run at the speed of a 4x. This also means 512MB of RAM on the GFX card will only really be used at around 360MB. Still an improvement and Thief 3 (the higher spec'd game) will still fly.

In any case, for what it is, that's a great price. I think the best thing is to not buy GFX cards online though. I shop in Tottenham Court Road in London and normally barter at least 40% off. They're also great at giving good advice happily letting you play for hours on the latest FPS. Like the FX5600 mentioned above, the reason it's a recommended one is exactly because it does have the pixel shader, it does have the gouraud alpha antialiasing, it does have the automatic bitmap plane switching. It even has a decent spec. Games can technically run fine. It's just a useless card. And these guys tell you that.

In any case, your chosen card will exceed the GeForce 6600 by *far* so for that price you can't really go wrong at all. The specs actually say it supports 4x which is probably what your current card does too. It's a shame you'll not get that extra 0.5 frames a second unless you upgrade your motherboard. In any case, you'll be at 300+.

Having said all that, if that is within your budget then absolutely buy it. Just don't spend any more or your system itself will be the throttle...

That card will work whether your motherboard is 4x or 8x. You'll be playing your two games without a single problem, and it will last you over a year before you can even find a game you really want to play where you have to change the in-game settings to "below medium". In the meantime, you'll be playing them on ultra high! (then high come just pre-Christmas 07) (then medium come January 08)

In 2008 I'll be back to recommend to you how to upgrade your motherboard

[EDIT]

I really need to keep up with GFX prices lol But yeah, 6600 would have been fine obviously.

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[Last edited by Syntax at 01-02-2007 11:45 PM]

Syntax
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Elfstone wrote:

What's all that? You just watch me wee Elfstone!!

/me attempts to lift the car with his (opposite of wee) arms...

!!Crash!!
Erm... is 999 the number to call here in Scotland too?

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[Last edited by Syntax at 01-02-2007 11:49 PM]

Briareos
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Syntax wrote:
The ATI card you're looking at beats mine hands down so yeah... that will even do you fine for Thief 4 *and* 5. I would just make very sure that you've got 8x AGP on your motherboard. The spec you posted said 4x. This means an 8x will run at the speed of a 4x. This also means 512MB of RAM on the GFX card will only really be used at around 360MB. Still an improvement and Thief 3 (the higher spec'd game) will still fly.

Ummm... the speed of the AGP bus has nothing to do with how much memory will be used, just how fast you can fill said memory with textures (and how many 3D operations you can send to the card per second).

Anyway, according to this chart that ATI card is a clunker - it's not that much better than what he has now according to this chart, and you can get, say, this card for even less money, but with a lot more bang for the buck, as far as ATI is concerned.

For about twice that money, you can buy an X1950 XT with AGP, but that's definitively overkill for his machine...

np: F.S. Blumm - Drehlicht (Summer Kling)

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BDR
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Syntax wrote:
I recommend GeForce 6600 as it will be excellent for your games and more importantly, because I use that card and am very pleased with it.

Well, I will definitely keep it in mind. If I can find it at a better price than the ATI card then I'll go with it.

Syntax wrote:
I would just make very sure that you've got 8x AGP on your motherboard. The spec you posted said 4x. This means an 8x will run at the speed of a 4x. This also means 512MB of RAM on the GFX card will only really be used at around 360MB. Still an improvement and Thief 3 (the higher spec'd game) will still fly.

How would I check my motherboard for 8x AGP? Although it sounds like even if it's only 4x this card will still run as good as a card made for 4x and not 8x...

Syntax wrote:
In any case, for what it is, that's a great price. I think the best thing is to not buy GFX cards online though. (snip)

Sounds like a great place to go for advice on these things, but sadly there's nothing even close to that level of service (or even that type of service) nearby and I have no car (nor real knowledge of driving) so I'm rather limited in options. The metro system is pretty good, but you have to know where you're going and know the landmarks/roads or else you could end up needing to wait for the next bus to come by (which can take up to an hour to arrive depending on the time of day and route).

Syntax wrote:
It's a shame you'll not get that extra 0.5 frames a second unless you upgrade your motherboard. In any case, you'll be at 300+.

I don't think I'll miss that extra half frame... Isn't there a framerate beyond which the human eye can't tell the difference between speeds? I was pretty sure there was (or some kind of way to say when certain levels of difference in framerate were negligible).

Syntax wrote:
That card will work whether your motherboard is 4x or 8x. You'll be playing your two games without a single problem, and it will last you over a year before you can even find a game you really want to play where you have to change the in-game settings to "below medium". In the meantime, you'll be playing them on ultra high!

I like the sound of that a lot. Thank you very much.

Syntax wrote:
In 2008 I'll be back to recommend to you how to upgrade your motherboard

If I really feel the need to upgrade again (Spore and Alan Wake may test my willpower) then I'll see if it's possible to get something new that's designed with gaming in mind more than a package deal (I've seen a couple places where they will put together a custom computer for you...). I don't really feel like trying to figure out how to get a different OS working on my system (and even if I could, what about the space it takes up? and how do I make sure in the time between OSes my data doesn't get corrupted or lost?), since as far as I understand both of those games are going to require Vista and I don't think it's as simple as downloading a file to make that work.

EDIT: Ooh, got another question (since the ATI presales support line was busy ): On the video card page I showed you earlier, it says the minimum power supply required is 300 watts. Where would I look for/How would I find out that information? And what exactly is that referring to? The wattage listing on the back of the box? The surge protector? Or the power supply to the house?

EDIT x2: Thanks Briareos! That definitely looks like a better deal.

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[Last edited by BDR at 01-03-2007 12:35 AM]

Syntax
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BDR wrote:
Well, I will definitely keep it in mind. If I can find it at a better price than the ATI card then I'll go with it.

No don't, because it will be at a better price but it will be less good than the ATI card by *far*. The 6600 would play your two games fine but for the (probably) extra 10 bucks you get an extra year of playability. I don't know the prices nowadays and didn't know your budget so the 6600 would have been perfect if it was still priced at last year's prices or that the new 6600 price was only just within your budget. You will be saving money by buying the ATI.

BDR wrote:
How would I check my motherboard for 8x AGP? Although it sounds like even if it's only 4x this card will still run as good as a card made for 4x and not 8x...

I'm not actually sure (assuming you have windows). The spec you posted said 4x. In any case, the 8x ATI will also run at 4x (which I guess is logical). It also means that if you do upgrade, you'll already have a 8x on hand.

BDR wrote:
Sounds like a great place to go for advice on these things, but sadly there's nothing even close to that level of service (or even that type of service) nearby and I have no car (nor real knowledge of driving) so I'm rather limited in options.

That's why we're here

BDR wrote:
I don't think I'll miss that extra half frame... Isn't there a framerate beyond which the human eye can't tell the difference between speeds? I was pretty sure there was (or some kind of way to say when certain levels of difference in framerate were negligible).

Yeah, I was putting the point across. A 6600 would run those games in excess of 70 fps easy. TV is 25 (in most countries). Cinema is 24. The thing with fps is that in games it can matter because it will stutter rather than continue. A framerate of 15 is perfectly playable with some slowdowns for "no reason" ie the hard disk saves a file or something and the GFX card can't manage by itself. Higher framerates means it can deal with less inteference from other programs (or system calls). Basically, that ATI will run everything smoothly unless you're running defrag and a full system virus check at the same time in which case it may skip at times

BDR wrote:
I like the sound of that a lot. Thank you very much.

My pleasure

BDR wrote:
If I really feel the need to upgrade again (Spore and Alan Wake may test my willpower) then I'll see if it's possible to get something new that's designed with gaming in mind more than a package deal (I've seen a couple places where they will put together a custom computer for you...). I don't really feel like trying to figure out how to get a different OS working on my system (and even if I could, what about the space it takes up? and how do I make sure in the time between OSes my data doesn't get corrupted or lost?), since as far as I understand both of those games are going to require Vista and I don't think it's as simple as downloading a file to make that work.

I was kinda kidding about upgrading your system. You're looking at least 18 months ahead here. But yeah, when buying a system it's important to buy it for a right purpose. A lot of people think "I'll buy a PC and then buy the gaming components". It doesn't work like that. If you want a Ferrari, you're gonna have to buy one. At the other end obviously you got Crays and whatnot which can do what a Ferrari wouldn't dream of. You just ain't gonna go anywhere, but you may just save the world. I have never personally bought a package deal, but recently it's actually cheaper at times to do so. It really depends what you're after and I'm sure we can discuss it again in 18 months

As for the other half of the question, I'm unsure if I understand... What will require Vista? I don't know of any games which require that OS yet. That would be limiting your audience. Vista only games are years down the line.

As for having 2 OS's, you wouldn't have. MS want everyone to use the latest and transferring the data will be something I'm certain they'll make as easy as possible. People only really dual boot Windows OSs on test beds and so on.

Side note/personal gripe: Data never gets corrupted. It only gets changed.

Anyways...

BDR wrote:
EDIT: Ooh, got another question (since the ATI presales support line was busy ): On the video card page I showed you earlier, it says the minimum power supply required is 300 watts. Where would I look for/How would I find out that information? And what exactly is that referring to? The wattage listing on the back of the box? The surge protector? Or the power supply to the house?

Very good question. I have absolutely no idea

These GFX cards do use a lot of power. High end one's require external power supplies, I know that much. But that's all. My 6600 (with fan) runs fine with 4 hard drives, 2 DVD drives and a 4.6GHZ processor with an internal fan and a case fan - on a normal power supply.

If I remember my physics lessons correctly, U = RI. Voltage = Amps * Resistance or something. Doubt that would help though lol

The voltage of your power supply should be displayed just by your power cable though, usually on a red inbedded switch. That info may come in handy when talking to them.

Anyways, best of luck. I need sleep Let us know how it goes...

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[Last edited by Syntax at 01-03-2007 01:06 AM]

Mattcrampy
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I should point out that the first three levels of Psychonauts are not what everyone raves about. If you find yourself nodding off, I'll get a savefile for you to skip ahead to Lungfishopolis.

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eytanz
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I'd strongly recommend against skipping Psychonauts levels - it's true that Psychonauts' real brilliance is in the second half of the game, but the beginning is hardly boring and it's a pretty useful training for the rest of the game.

But Psychonaut's discussion is pretty irrelevant to this thread, which is about building BDR's computer up so he can play it.

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Elfstone
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Syntax wrote:
What's all that? You just watch me wee Elfstone!!

/me attempts to lift the car with his muckle sauncy arms...

apologies for taking this off topic again!

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BDR
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Syntax wrote:
What will require Vista? I don't know of any games which require that OS yet. That would be limiting your audience. Vista only games are years down the line.

Alan Wake is exclusive to Vista and the Xbox 360 (done by the folks who made the Max Payne series which is why I'm interested even though it's exclusive to a different OS). Yes, I think it's a poor decision too, but their explanation is that they want to make the best game possible and that making it more compatible with other OSes/consoles would take away from that. I had thought Spore was set for Vista too, but I found out that no one's actually said/estimated what kind of computer you'd need to run it, so I don't know. I did find this list of Vista games though.

Znirk
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BDR wrote:
On the video card page I showed you earlier, it says the minimum power supply required is 300 watts. Where would I look for/How would I find out that information? And what exactly is that referring to? The wattage listing on the back of the box? The surge protector? Or the power supply to the house?

The back of the box. Actually all three of them, but surge protectors and house grids that can't handle/supply 300W are pretty hypothetical in areas that have reliable internet connections ...
The "power supply" this page talks about is the part with the socket for the mains cable, big fan grille and (usually) rocker switch. If there's a wattage listed near that area, that'll be what you want. If there's no indication, you'll have to dig out those hardware manuals you thought you'd never need

BDR
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Wow, I'm glad I checked here first before trying ATI again. I couldn't find any hardware manuals (I'm not even sure if I got any aside from the stuff I did find and knew of), but I did find a link on my computer to my specs sheet, which said that the power requirement was 300 watts maximum. Will it work as long as the wattage is at/under the max, or will it slide a bit in quality?

Rescator
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Where the CPU is the brain in a PC the PSU (Power Supply Unit) is the heart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply

If the specs on your PC state that the PSU has a max 300watt rating/load limit. This means the total power consumption on the system must not exceed that.

There is no easy way to measure this, short borrowing some pro gear your best bet is pull out a calculator, add up the max watt rating of all the components and devices in your system.

If the PSU limit is hit or passed a number of things can happen;
If it is a older type of PSU it might have a fuse that blows,
if it's a more modern one the PSU most likely have no fuse and will either do a panic shutdown of the PC to avoid damage,
or worst case the circuits in the PSU will fry, repairing it may cost as much as or more than buying a new one. If it keeps working despite being overloaded the system will most likely be unstable. (memory corruption, CPU crashes, Blue Screen, lockups, etc)

As to a graphics card, go for a modern lower midrange priced one that support current standards (Pixel Shader 3.0 support for example). If you are a casual gamer this will be cheaper in the long run as a graphics card upgrade in 2-3 years won't hurt as much as you really didn't spend so much.

Considering your current system I'd strongly advise doing that as in 2 years or so you may want to do a more proper system makeover. In which case I'd advise PCI-Express instead of AGP and AM2 socket motherboard and AMD2 socket AMD cpu or the intel equivalent, DDR2 ram (or DDR3 if it is available at that time for the CPU platform you choose)

Myself I got a AM2 socket motherboard with PCI-Express, and AM2 socket AMD Athlon 64 cpu, DDR2 ram (DDR1 not supported and outdated and DDR2 is cheaper anyway), Geforce 7600GT PCI-Express (handles any game currently out there and should be fine for a few more years) pixel shader 3.0 and all that good stuff, Audigy 2ZS sound card, and SATA hard-disks.

Hardcore gamers would stick their nose into the sky if they saw such a PC as mine, but I know better, I'll be the one laughing when they shell out hundreds and hundreds for the next best thing hot out the door.

And don't bother about SLI graphics, not worth the cost, get a better GFX card instead of going SLI.
Same with Dual or multi core CPU's, don't bother with that yet,
get a better single core instead.
Myself I'll be waiting until Vista and DX10 optimized games has been around for a bit and the DX10 graphics cards are into their 2nd or 3rd gen, and by that time there will most likely be plenty of affordable quad core cpu's as well, and game developers will have managed to properly make use of multiple cpu's for a while.

So, to sum it up. Go for lower midrange your wallet will not only thank you now, but thank you again the next time you upgrade.
As you will be able to do more frequent upgrades compared to a highly costly upgrade once each 6 years and still end up 4 years behind "current tech"

One thing to keep an eye on is features, make sure that the GFX card you buy support all current standards (like Pixel Shader 3.0) as that will ensure you will be able to play future games without issues, maybe not at super frame rates in a few years but still play it without cursing yourself because a game "require" Pixel Shader 3.0 (as a game recently did and pissed off a bunch of gamers who only had GFX card capable of doing Pixel Shader 2.0, ugh) Although it may be tempting to go for a 512MB gfx card, don't. Not much gain compared to 256MB ones, esp on lower/midrange cards.

There is no way to get the perfect gaming rig, hardcore gamers know this yet they still buy the latest and greatest constantly.
Go low or medium midrange price, check out places like Toms Hardware http://www.tomshardware.com/ for their various tests on CPU, GFX cards and motherboards.
It is however possible to get a "good" gaming rig which is also one helluva all-round system.

Ride the tailcoat. Hardcore gamer hardware drops in price as the latest hardcore gear hits the market, so yesterdays (or year rather) hardcore gamer gear becomes a affordable gear that last you several years worth of fun.

PS! If your PC is a ATX PC (the case and motherboard follows the ATX design standard in size and shape that is)
Then you should be able to buy a new and beefier ATX power supply and replace the old one in your PC case.



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[Last edited by Rescator at 01-04-2007 03:10 AM]

Jatopian
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Syntax wrote:
Side note/personal gripe: Data never gets corrupted. It only gets changed.

So, if I came over to your place and opened your copy of DROD in a hex editor and changed values willy-nilly (or even just swiped the drives with a magnet), that wouldn't give you another personal gripe? You wouldn't say I had 'altered it for the worse', keeping in mind that this is a definition of "corrupt" according to dictionary.com?

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Syntax
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Jatopian wrote:

Syntax wrote:
Side note/personal gripe: Data never gets corrupted. It only gets changed.

So, if I came over to your place and opened your copy of DROD in a hex editor and changed values willy-nilly (or even just swiped the drives with a magnet), that wouldn't give you another personal gripe? You wouldn't say I had 'altered it for the worse', keeping in mind that this is a definition of "corrupt" according to dictionary.com?

That sounds pretty aggressive. If you came round my place I'd rather we had a beer but anyways... I'm glad you used the words you did.

"and changed values" - Exactly. That's just what I said. Data gets changed. In my experience, data is never actually corrupted - only transformed. If I modify my copy of DROD bitwise and end up with Halflife 2, is that corruption? No... It's just changed into something else. Data metamorphosis is not corruption. Corruption involves money, guns, bribery and drugs. Corrupt my 0 and you may get a 1, but you won't get a cartel.

Bottom line is, data corruption doesn't exist. That happens to be my opinion... live with it. If it can be backed up, do so. For the record, *if* you did come round mine, and you did "open" my copy of DROD and change bits "willy-nilly", I'd quite happily put things back to how they were. I'd also make sure you couldn't come back again.

On a serious note, why on earth did you pick such a small statement of mine then decide it was important enough to post about? And I find the dictionary link hugely condescending.

This thread is about helping a fellow DROD member pick a GFX card. If you're angry about something post somewhere else.

Znirk
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Syntax wrote:
Corruption involves money, guns, bribery and drugs.
[...]
I find the dictionary link hugely condescending.

Wait ... why? The entries look like standard definitional fare to me, and dictionaries are supposed to list all the common meanings of a word even if there are people who want to use only one of them.

(edit:) Oh, or did you mean that giving the link was condescending? ... Then I still don't understand why, though.

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[Last edited by Znirk at 01-05-2007 02:10 AM : disabling smilies]

Mattcrampy
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This honestly sounds like a semantic thing - Syntax doesn't like to use the word 'corrupted' in certain situations. Personally, I think it's a fine word to describe the loss of data integrity, but whether it should be used in that sense is a Humpty Dumpty argument so there's really no point having it.



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Briareos
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Mattcrampy wrote:
This honestly sounds like a semantic thing - Syntax doesn't like to use the word 'corrupted' in certain situations.

That just goes to show again that Syntax and Semantics are different beasts...

*ducks, runs & hides*

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BDR
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Since Christmastime was rolling around again, I managed to look back into this (as opposed to continous procrastination) and have found that the card Briareos suggested (Radeon X1650 Pro) should work with my current power supply (says "300 W power supply or higher") and only costs about $130. O' course, I suppose I could look into a possible power supply upgrade to make sure... though that may take even longer to sort out. :/

Briareos
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BDR wrote:
the card Briareos suggested (Radeon X1650 Pro)

Ugh. I hope that's a X1950 Pro at 130 USD, or you're being robbed...

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BDR
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Heh, yes that's USD. I live in the US and it was bought from a US retailer so USD would make the most sense.

Syntax
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BDR wrote:
Heh, yes that's USD. I live in the US and it was bought from a US retailer so USD would make the most sense.

I think he meant the X1950 Pro (not the X1650 Pro). The dollar sign in your post would have made clear the currency

[EDIT]

I realise the $ symbol can be associated to various countries, but that's not my point.

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[Last edited by Syntax at 01-01-2008 06:24 PM]

Briareos
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Syntax wrote:
I think he meant the X1950 Pro (not the X1650 Pro). The dollar sign in your post would have made clear the currency

What I meant was exactly what he said...

*opens foot, inserts mouth*

np: Sofa Surfers - What Kind Of World (ft. Lil Desmond Levy) (Encounters)

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"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
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