b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
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If you ever wanted to know how a *good* roguelike game looks like, but were too shy to ask, now you have a chance. You can watch other people play if you connect to the public server: crawl.akrasiac.org.

telnet crawl.akrasiac.org

But keep in mind there may be no one playing at the moment. You can still play the game yourself.

If you use windows and don't know how to telnet, download putty first.
http://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/latest/x86/putty.exe
As you run it, make sure you have 'telnet' selected, and type crawl.akrasiac.org into 'host' field. Or whatever it's called.

A long time ago, I used to telnet by 'run a command' in Start menu. I have no idea which windows version it works, but I can't test now since I don't have windows anymore.
-------
The server is running Crawl Stone Soup 0.1.6 . It's a new version of crawl, not available in ubuntu/debian repositories. You'd have to compile it yourself.
It has numerous interface fixes, cleanups, built-in Travel Patch, some new monsters, balance tweaks, new vault designs, bugfixes, spells, skills, and a lot more !

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-21-2006 05:06 PM]

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
IP: Logged

Just tried using the telnet command through Run in Windows XP, and while it works there and brings up stuff the result is ugly and confusing (by which I mean the commands and result text for actions overlap the game window). I hope putty does a better job...

EDIT: Ah, much better. Looks interesting, but about as complicated as NetHack which would be better for me if I didn't have to remind myself of what everything is/does every 10 minutes... Nice find, though, even if only to watch.

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[Last edited by BDR at 12-21-2006 11:00 PM]

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
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Heh, I just watched the game you were just playing now; too bad that +6 cloak was mutagenic... how did you keep all the good mutations? Do cure mutation potions only work on the last mutation you went through?

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
IP: Logged

Heh, that's funny because I was watching you earlier. You seemed rather confused.
By the way: throwing arrows has been intentionally made harder in crawl Stone Soup. Mainly to prevent cheap tactics like throwing poisoned arrows. Poisoned weapons can poison even if you can't penetrate armor.

All the good mutations ? I was playing a naga. They have some innate mutations, like ability to see invisible creatures, poison spit, tough scales, and, unfortunately slow movement speed. Innate mutations are marked blue.
Vanilla crawl doesn't list natural powers of some races.

Next game, you were trying (in vain) to travel a long distance, but your path was obstructed by a trap.

As far as I know, potion of cure mutation simply removes several mutations randomly. In my case, it removed all of them, even the good ones like strength or slow metabolism.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-22-2006 05:47 PM]

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
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Hmph, well now I have another reason to disarm traps besides potential experience (but there probably is really only experience in it for me if I have a disarm trap type skill); convenience in travel. I probably seem confused mostly because a) my numpad doesn't work for some reason so I have to use the unintutive ykuhlnjm (this accounts for just about all the times I hit Dungeon Overview by accident which I can't figure out why this is happening since it works with my other programs fine) and b) I'm not quite used to having all/most possible options one keypress away (more graphically advanced types of games spoiled me) so sometimes I'll press the wrong thing and get something other than what I was going for.

And I was throwing arrows because I had no bow. Do I always have to find one in the dungeon? It seems like the only weapon you ever have a lot of success throwing is the dart.

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[Last edited by BDR at 12-22-2006 06:08 PM]

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
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BDR wrote:
And I was throwing arrows because I had no bow. Do I always have to find one in the dungeon? It seems like the only weapon you ever have a lot of success throwing is the dart.

Hmm. First of all, I don't know how much crawl experience do you have. But it looked strange. Transmuter is one of trickier classes to play, and it has quite tough start. It's neither warrior nor offensive spellcaster. Later, with spells like Spider Form and Blade Hands you can do some serious damage.
Read a book, it contains spell descriptions and hints on how to use them.

If you're pretty new to crawl, I'd recommend either something warriorish (fighter, gladiator, berserker, paladin, chaos/death knight etc) or strong offensive spellcaster (wizard, elementalist, conjurer...). But stay away from necromancers. Necromancy is good support magic for warrior/mage hybrids, but there are simply too many immune creatures to let pure necromancer survive (undead, demons, inanimate...).
Crawl has this interesting approach where there's very slow monster generation, so it's pretty safe to heal by waiting. Eventually hunger will force you to move...

Yes, darts are one of few missiles that are effective when simply thrown, athrough they can also be fired from Hand Crossbow. I think stones are decent without a sling, too.
Bows aren't that rare. Crossbows are much harder to come by. I think every single centaur caries a bow, but they're really dangerous, too.

Hunter starting kit contains a ranged weapon, depending on race. Halflings get slings, dwarves and gnomes - crosssbow, everyone else a bow...

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-22-2006 06:26 PM]

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
IP: Logged

I just went with Transmuter because I thought, "Hey, polymorphing class, might be worth a try.." Thanks for the information on starting equipment, my next attempt will probably be a Hunter (I like shooting things ).

My experience with Crawl is about on the same level as NetHack; understand the general stuff but not quite enough of the particulars to last very long even with good luck (like how to combine race and class to make for better inventories/stat mixes, how to handle ID'ing items without the spell/scroll [the vampiric blade was a guess; can/do monsters equip cursed items?], or how to gauge monster strength beyond simply attacking it and seeing if I die).

Edit: I'm watching you play again, and I noticed that you lost experience during a crisis moment (you had 14 HP and about 4 or 5 monsters trying to kill you, and you had had over 20K exp but then fell below 20K). What happened; did one of the monsters cast a spell or something that stole experience? And what does the potion of restore abilities help with and why couldn't you use it to get back what you lost?

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[Last edited by BDR at 12-22-2006 07:44 PM]

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
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BDR wrote:
I just went with Transmuter because I thought, "Hey, polymorphing class, might be worth a try.." Thanks for the information on starting equipment, my next attempt will probably be a Hunter (I like shooting things ).

And I heard it IS worth a try, but takes some skill and crawl lore to pull it off. It's one of classes I never played successfully.

My experience with Crawl is about on the same level as NetHack; understand the general stuff but not quite enough of the particulars to last very long even with good luck

Those particulars are very important in crawl, because the game is brutal even compared to other roguelikes. On the other hand, in many areas it feels very friendly. For example, as I mentioned, you can actually rest between fights because monsters respawn slowly. Another thing I like about crawl is that it has few quirks. Hydras require special handling, but it's quite obvious for anyone familiar with greek mythology.
Keep an eye on scrolls of blinking, they're the closes there is to amulet of lifesaving.

(like how to combine race and class to make for better inventories/stat mixes,

In general, crawl rewards specialists. Trolls, minotaurs, orcs, dwarves, make very good warriors. (Ogres are suprisingly hard to play, because they're awful at dodging and can't wear most armor). Elves, spriggans, demigods, demonspawn make very good spellcasters.
Crawl has interesting skill-based system, it allows you to mix various roles. If you have a good plan, it may be good to try a hybrid character.

I encourage you to *gasp* make use of spoilers, because crawl is much better spoiled than unspoiled ! Spoilers don't ruin the game because of
1) Marginal story
2) No quirky nethack-like tricks to abuse. Knowing rules better won't make you a great player, you still have to make good tactical decisions.
3) It's actually more like missing documentation than spoilers

You may skip the part about dungeon branches, it actually spoils the game a bit, but take a look at racial skill aptitudes:

http://swallowtail.org/crawl/species_skills.shtml
Smaller values mean less exp required to raise the skills. If you don't 'spoil' yourself regarding skill aptitudes, you risk some unnecessary frustration. It's not that obvious kobolds are very bad at using maces and especially polearms.

Gods are really fun and important part of playing crawl. They're not merely healing potions, like in ADOM. In fact, most of them can't heal you. They're quite specialised and have their likes and dislikes.
Some character classes start worshiping a god (Berserker, priest, chaos knight, death knight, paladin). Other characters can convert at an appropriate altar. Lone altars are very rare, but around dungeon level 5 you should find entrance to Ecumenical Temple. (special branches start with yellow staircases). It lets you choose from all 12 gods of crawl.
Okawaru, Makhleb, Yrredemhunl (sp!?!), Trog, Xom are nice for warrior types. Sif Muna and Vehumet are popilar choices for spellcasters.
Some gods grant you special powers you can activate. Some watch over you, can protect you from hits, unholy energy, starvation. Extremely devoted characters can even get gifts of various kinds, even demonic servants. Some require killing of specific enemies, other like item sacrifices. But you can offend them, too, if you're not careful. More here:

http://swallowtail.org/crawl/gods_spoil.shtml

how to handle ID'ing items without the spell/scroll

Don't count on ID scrolls, they're too rare and valuable for that.
http://swallowtail.org/crawl/identifying.shtml

[the vampiric blade was a guess; can/do monsters equip cursed items?], or how to gauge monster strength beyond simply attacking it and seeing if I die).

Yes, they can. You can examine monsters to see what items they're carrying. Be careful with war/broad axes, great swords, halberds, glaives etc.
Most magical items have strange appearance - they might be glowing, shiny, embroided etc.
Artifacts tend to be even weirder - steaming, smoking, bloodstained, crude, fine, brightly glowing and so on.

Edit: I'm watching you play again, and I noticed that you lost experience during a crisis moment (you had 14 HP and about 4 or 5 monsters trying to kill you, and you had had over 20K exp but then fell below 20K). What happened; did one of the monsters cast a spell or something that stole experience?

That was ugly. An orc with a dagger of draining. It didn't even have any suspiscious appearance, it only identified itself once I wielded it. I picked it up afterwards just to make sure no one else does. A single hit decreased my level by 1.
Weapons of draining have a big downside - by making monsters permanently weaker, they reduce amount of xp you get for killing them. But it's preferable to dying.

And what does the potion of restore abilities help with and why couldn't you use it to get back what you lost?

There's no way to get back lost experience other than do it all over again. Potion of restore abilities restores just that - abilities. Strength, Intelligence, Dexterity. If your stats are yellow, they're temporarily decreased. The potions are handy because it takes long time for abilities to recover on their own.
Some monsters and special attacks can reduce their your abilities. Mostly shadows, wraiths, necrophages, and other undead. Sickness can also lower your stats.
But you can prevent xp drain. Aside from not getting hit, there are rings of life protection. Shining One protects your lifeforce as long as you're praying, but people don't like him as he makes you fight honorably (no poison, no backstabbing).

Unfortunately, my naga died recently. The second orc warlord was just too much. Actually I killed him but his orc warrior sidekicks with weapons of flaming and electrocution were brutal. I should've been more triggerhappy with those wands...

Have fun ! I'm going to watch someone now...

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-22-2006 09:27 PM]

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
IP: Logged

Hints for Maurog:
- ghouls are naturally skilled in unarmed combat, they don't even need a blade to dissect a corpse.
- you can eat food (or meat chunks) from the ground without picking them up. Just press 'e' when standing on top of it.
- one of much praised features of Travel Patch is ability to well, travel a long distance within a level or even between levels. If you reached a dead end, you don't have to manually navigate back to unexplored area. Press X (to enable the map), put cursor over desired destination, press dot. Your character will go there using shortest path possible, stopping at first sight of an enemy or other important events like hunger, trap, waning spell effects etc.
- there's even auto-explore mode under CTRL-O . It's not optimal, but enough in many cases.


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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-22-2006 09:45 PM]

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
IP: Logged

I sort of guessed that about the potion of restore abilities afterwards, but wasn't sure. I tried a few human fighters today (to try out the idea given in one of the side pages from that site that human fighters are one of the best choices for Crawl newbies) and had my best game yet, which unfortunately ended when I met my second orc wizard. I think I might have had a chance of beating him if I'd quaffed the (as of then unID'ed) potion of healing I had and/or managed to hit him with one of my potions of slowing, but I did neither and even though I'd done fairly well until then (quaffed one potion of dexterity and got to level 4) I was killed with a few blasts of magic dart (this being after I ran away from him once to try and recover my health; I got him down to almost dead at the cost of making myself almost dead and with his friends waiting behind him I was hoping I could either get away or heal myself a bit).

Let's see.. ah yes, I knew I was going to ask a question. When is a good time to use identify scrolls? On armor or jewelry that refuses to identify itself upon wearing, or on anything that won't immediately ID itself when you use it? And can you throw bad potions at enemies to make them suffer ill effects? I think you can do that in NetHack... Is there a way to increase general throw success, or is that covered under Ranged Weapons/only covered by the requisite skill for what you're throwing (Dart skill for darts, and so on)?

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[Last edited by BDR at 12-23-2006 06:34 PM]

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
Registered: 01-08-2006
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This is the first Nethack game I've actually been able to get into. It's quite fun really, although I perfer to play with the version with tiles. I can't concentrate on all the symbols and stuff.

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
IP: Logged

BDR wrote:
I tried a few human fighters today (to try out the idea given in one of the side pages from that site that human fighters are one of the best choices for Crawl newbies) and had my best game yet, which unfortunately ended when I met my second orc wizard.

I was watching you for a while. You have a strange tendency to keep throwing ammunition at enemies, even in melee range. Except for darts and stones, it's not going to work well. Needles need a blowgun, otherwise they rarely hit anything. Non-poisoned needles may not be worth bothering at all.
Another tip: ordinary armor is poor protection against magical attacks. If you face a wizard, or especially orc priest, you should either kill him as fast as possible or run away. Use the most damaging weapon you have.

I think I might have had a chance of beating him if I'd quaffed the (as of then unID'ed) potion of healing

Sometimes it's just better to run away, even if it means fleeing to an unexplored level. Orc wizards are annoying, but not truly dangerous. Their spells need clear line of sight, and don't do as much damage as smiting of orc priests.

I had and/or managed to hit him with one of my potions of slowing, but I did neither

It doesn't work this way in crawl. Harmful potions, like slowing, paralysis, poison have almost no use in crawl...except for quirky spell 'Evaporate', present in Transmuter's spellbook. It produces better results with nastier potions.

and even though I'd done fairly well until then (quaffed one potion of dexterity and got to level 4) I was killed with a few blasts of magic dart (this being after I ran away from him once to try and recover my health; I got him down to almost dead at the cost of making myself almost dead and with his friends waiting behind him I was hoping I could either get away or heal myself a bit).

Well, you have to learn approximate strength of most monsters to be able to plan properly. Don't forget about scrolls of teleportation, they're the most easily available escape tool. But they work with a short delay; you have to plan ahead.

When is a good time to use identify scrolls? On armor or jewelry that refuses to identify itself upon wearing, or on anything that won't immediately ID itself when you use it?

There are many answers to that question. Jewellery is certainly a good target for ID scroll. Jewellery, especially artifacts, provides a good boost and you want to make sure you wear the one most suitable to situation. Some items, like ring of slaying, can transform you into a killing machine. Focus on rings first, they tend to have stronger enchantments.
Armor always fully, automatically identifies itself once you put it on, even artifacts. The only thing you have to worry about are curses, but it's not such a big problem. Scrolls of remove curse are common.
Once you identify (with other means) all common scrolls or potions, it may be even a good idea to identify new potions/scrolls you find. By that time anything new that shows up is probably something special, like croll of enchant weapon III, scroll of vorpalize weapon, potion of cure mutation, immolation(ouch!), scroll of magic mapping or recharging... It's best not to waste such powerful items by use-ID, but it's not always possible. Potions are easy enough to ID by drinking, scrolls are trickier.
Weapons, just like armor, are easy to identify by wielding... but you still won't know the toHit and toDamage values until you test it on living subjects, or use an ID scroll.
If you're short on wands, it can pay off to identify a wand. You'll learn how many charges it has.

And can you throw bad potions at enemies to make them suffer ill effects?

Only with the rare Evaporate spell.

Is there a way to increase general throw success, or is that covered under Ranged Weapons/only covered by the requisite skill for what you're throwing (Dart skill for darts, and so on)?

Ranged Weapons and Agility. I don't know if Slings skill still exists. Darts, Short Blades, and Staves are the least valuable weapon skills. They lack high damage weapons. But don't throw ammunition meant to use with launchers. Also, try using 'f'ire key more.

If you simply want the easiest race/class combination to have reasonably easy introduction to the game, try Troll Berserker. Even without 'a'ctivating berserk mode, trolls are devastating. Great damage even unarmed, large hp pool, fast health regeneration. It's hard to lose a troll in the first few dungeon levels !
====

Ezlo: if you insist on calling the genre after a specific game, call it roguelike. There are still people who play rogue.
I can't imagine how can you make proper tiled graphics for a roguelike game. The most common format is 80x24 (25?) characters. Even if you assume 1280x1024 resolution, it each tile would have to be 12x15 pixels. Don't get me started on scrolling the screen.
DROD barely has 30x32 or something close. And it's more than enough for even deadliest puzzles.

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Beef Row
Level: Smiter
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b0rsuk wrote:
I can't imagine how can you make proper tiled graphics for a roguelike game. The most common format is 80x24 (25?) characters. Even if you assume 1280x1024 resolution, it each tile would have to be 12x15 pixels. Don't get me started on scrolling the screen.

Well, Angband squeaks by on tiles with some ridiculously small graphics, but personally at least, I don't think they have enough detail, and they're often ugly.

Nethack carries tiles off by virtue of having smaller levels than most roguelikes. (Are those in the Dev Team version or only an add-on, btw?)

Then there's Ragnarok. The tiles are pretty integral to the game, there. But its not at all a typical roguelike (for better AND for worse). If you dig large overworlds and a less dungeon-centric game, like Norse Mythology, and or want graphics for your roguelike, its worth checking out. The tiles are pretty ugly, but I can't imagine the game without them.

But generally, I'd say adding tiles to a roguelike can be done, but its usually regretable, and I'm far happier with the ASCII.

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
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IVAN is the only roguelike that managed to impress me with the graphics. Unless it's that kind of quality, ASCII tiles are pretty much always better.

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

Fafnir
Level: Smiter

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I've tried Ragnarok, but the time limit really killed it for me when I ran into it. There just seems to be far too much to do! Crawl, on the other hand, is excellent - I've had four extremely promising characters who died in extremely stupid ways.

One died because of two knee-jerk reactions. "Ooh! Armour from Trog! Wear it - it might be good! EEK! Distortion! Causes mutations! Get it off me! Get it off me!!!" The consequence being, of course, a regrettably one-way trip to the Abyss. I now know that the god your character worships is secretly plotting to kill him. The sad thing was that I'd already survived the Abyss once with that character...

The second died because it was too late at night - I'd run into a herd of yaktaurs that seemed to be more vicious than normal, but since I'd met quite a few already all I could think was "Bah, this should be easy! Once more unto the breach!" even after far too many close calls.

The third died because I was inured to Angband's ways - half his inventory was taken up by food. He was Starving. I noticed a corpse a few paces away. Ooh - food! In Angband (or at least the variants I play), starvation manifests itself by gradual HP loss in the starving state. In Crawl, apparently, it manifests itself by instant death. I will not make that mistake again.

The fourth died by tripping over his own bloody feet. Into deep water (in The Swamp). And drowning in one turn. Idiot. I was unaware that this could happen, so this made me feel slightly irritated.

Anyone else have any YASDs (Yet Another Stupid Death) to share?

____________________________
Stupidity kills.
Absolute stupidity
Kills absolutely.

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
Registered: 01-08-2006
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Well, I started a game as a Demi-God fighter. The first area had a short hallway, and a door at the end, that was it. As soon as I opened the door, Sigmund cast a spell and I died. I also once started a game immediately surrounded by a giant gecko, and at least 6 hobgoblins. That also resulted in my death.

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
IP: Logged

My last death wasn't silly, but was very, very annoying. My demigod summoner was killing everyone left and right with his +7,+5 glaive of chopping. He was more of a warrior than a summoner, really, but it's a fun combination to play.
Then I met a frost giant. Having killed 3 or so Stone Giants in melee, I wasn't very afraid. With 14 AC and 15 EV my survival skills were pretty good. Two turns later I was down to 45 hp. I blinked away. The Frost Giant froze me with a single cold bolt.

I could've done it more carefully, with my blowgun and curare-tipped needles.. or even go triggerhappy with wands. But I never expected to lose 45+ hp in one hit.
Part of the blame is on bad jewellery and armor. I had no resitances except for life protection and poison.
It was such a great character. With base stats like 19str 18int 21dex, he was both great warrior and decent summoner. I only needed a single scroll of acquirement to get my Book of Summonings, learn Shadow Creatures and Abjuration.

At least he will make an insanely dangerous ghost to torment other players :->. Summoner ghosts are very hard to take down, especially if they happen to have high hp and heavy armor.

This is what I love in crawl. After first few levels, vast majority of your deaths are your faults. You can avoid them if you play carefully.
==========

By the way: I think it's a bad idea to play demigods for anything else than thematic reasons and hybrid classes. Demigods have superior abilities, but they learn mosts skills at 110, and gain levels VERY slowly. Humans raise skills 10% faster, and gain levels more than 50% faster. And don't eat as much.
For demigods, I recommend mage/warrior hybrids. Reavers, Death Knigts, Transmuters, and mages who can't survive on their magic alone (Warper, Enchanter, Necromancer...)

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-24-2006 02:07 PM]

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
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I threw the needles because I wanted to try and poison that wizard and because I didn't know it needed a blowgun to work, and the darts at melee range because those seemed to actually hit (even though the damage was minor) as opposed to missing all/most of the time in melee. Plus, with regards to the ooze and jelly, it seems like melee with non-acid resistant items is a very bad idea, which is why I started moving away and throwing the darts. Ranged Weapons makes sense, but it's too bad I haven't lasted long enough to find a launcher yet...

b0rsuk
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Oozes are slowish and don't corrode your weapons or armor. Jellies do. By the way, jellies tend to eat (!) ammunition thrown at them, as well as items on the floor or even doors. Once they eat enough, they... multiply.
Don't try to kill all monsters at all costs. It may be better to run away to nearest staircase, or teleport. Return when you're better prepared.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-24-2006 04:19 PM]

BDR
Level: Master Delver

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Registered: 10-03-2006
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b0rsuk wrote:
Once they eat enough, they... multiply.

Yikes. Do they spawn another jelly with full health, or what? Do they even spawn just one (as opposed to two or more)? Seems like as long as you kill them before they eat enough, though, that you can use ammo to kill them anyway...

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
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So I just tried out a Troll Berserker.. they definitely have an easy time of it, but I managed to run into an ogre who mangled me on level 4... if I'd only known I had a potion of invis and hadn't run into that dead end area... :sigh:

Some questions: Trog doesn't like magic, but didn't do anything to me when I read scrolls or drank potions; does this mean that as long as I don't actually memorize and cast spells that I can use any sort of magic I find, or what? And does berserking have a fixed time limit or does the amount of time it lasts for depend on the number of enemies you beat on (i.e. you have no enemies for the duration and it's very short, or you go for a ton of enemies and it lasts through the whole fight)? And is it just good luck that enabled me to find 7 scrolls of identify in 4 levels of play? Also, does the amount of time it takes to completely identify a weapon depend on race and/or class or on skill with a weapon type (I had a glowing whip for a level or so before I traded it for a hand axe and it still wouldn't tell me what it was capable of..)? I also ran into Trent (I think that's his name); is he supposed to be a wuss (I took him on along with a couple animals)? Also also also, (regarding gods) how often should I/do I need to pray to Trog, and/or do I need to sacrifice corpses?

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
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Worst. Teleport. Ever.

I'm on level 1 and decide to read that weird scroll I found. The good news? It's a teleport scroll. (yay, I'll recognize them from now on!) Bad news? I got teleported into an area that wasn't connected to the area I was previously at and it only had a staircase leading up (which on level 1 means out of the dungeon). That was probably the shortest game I've played yet... and it's not even a stupid death!

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
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Trog is offended by casting spells from memory. You can still use scrolls, wands, potions.
With troll's fast regeneration, you could probably beat even early ogres with some pillar dancing. (Pillar dancing is running around an obstacle with opponent on your heels, in hopes of regenerating hp and mana). Trolls regenerate much faster than ogres.

And does berserking have a fixed time limit or (...)

Generally, it just works for a certain time. But in one case (either Trog berserk or amulet of rage), don't remember which, your berserk time may be slightly extended if you kill an enemy.

And is it just good luck that enabled me to find 7 scrolls of identify in 4 levels of play?

I'd call it good luck. Sometimes even good luck can happen. You could spend them a bit more liberally, but I'd still save 2 or 3 for unknown jewellery.

Also, does the amount of time it takes to completely identify a weapon depend on race and/or class or on skill with a weapon type (I had a glowing whip for a level or so before I traded it for a hand axe and it still wouldn't tell me what it was capable of..)?

I doubt it depends on race. As for classes, in crawl they're more starter kits. They determine your starting stats, equipment, and skills, but they can change later. Any character can learn any skill, althrough some races learn some skills slower. Race is set in stone, 'class' isn't.
I think chance of identyfying a weapon or amount of charges in a wand may depend on Intelligence, or skills with the weapon (Evocation in case of magical devices).
ToHIt/ToDamage modifiers of a weapon aren't known for some time, but weapon brand (enchantment) is always revealed once you wield it. That's not to say that glowing but not branded weapon is less valuable. If you find a +2/+5 whip, it can be decent weapon for quite some time. +5 extra damage on a fast weapon such as whip is nice.
Try to stick to one/two melee weapon skills. It's rarely worth it to split xp into two skills that do the same thing. But if you find an outstanding weapon requiring a skill you don't have, it may pay off to retrain.
Some weapon skills partially transfer to others. You'll get a discount when learning similar weapon skill. It's detailed in the manual, but in short:
- short blades and long blades
- axes and polearms (not sure)
- axes and maces&flails
that's all I remember.

I also ran into Trent (I think that's his name); is he supposed to be a wuss (I took him on along with a couple animals)?

Terrence ? Yes, there are a couple of weaker uniques. But watch for those with wands. Even Ijyb or Jessica with a wand can kick your ass.
Sigmund, on the other hand...

(regarding gods) how often should I/do I need to pray to Trog, and/or do I need to sacrifice corpses?

Trog is pleased when you kill a living creature while praying, or 'D'issect a corpse while praying. Do it as often as possible without risking your safety. Your piety naturally goes down for all gods except Zin, Shining One and Elyvilon where it's the opposite.
Unlike ADOM or Nethack (I think), most gods don't require you to use their altars. Whatever you do while 'p'raying, you do in the god's name.
There are some not very documented things that happen to you while you pray. Some gods may protect you from harm, Zin may send you food if you're starving, Shining One protects you against xp drain, etc.
======================
EDIT
As for the teleport accident, most probably the 'bubble' was connected to the rest of the dungeon with a secret door. Secret doors are sometimes really tricky to find, much more than in ADOM. Take a walk along the wall and search.
Be extra careful when using rocky staircases (brown). You won't be able to go back the same way, and sometimes you indeed end up in a bubble with no way to escape. This can happen in Orcish Mines or the Lair. To minimize the risk, make sure you carry some scrolls of teleportation, a wand of digging etc. Scroll of magic mapping is helpful. Wands of disintegration can dig, too, but they're not as efficient.

Jellies: yes, you can kill them with ranged weapons if you damage them fast enough. But darts are probably not the best choice. I'd try at least a bow or crossbow.
They start at full health.
Once upon a time I've seen a jelly wander upon what's remained from orcish warband. Several corpses and piles of equipment. Before I reacted, there were several jellies.
If you think jellies are nasty, visit Slime Pit.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-24-2006 07:15 PM]

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
IP: Logged

BDR:
Next time:

- don't use berserk on such a wimpy opponent as imp. It's not a challenge for a troll !
- wait for your slowness to expire before you resume exploration.
- you could've used that newt as a living shield. Centaurs are strangely worried about friendly fire. You realized that too late...
- a potion of healing or speed would get you back to normal speed.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-24-2006 07:23 PM]

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
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For being so weak, though, they sure do blink an awful lot (so very annoying). I wanted to kill it and not spend 20 minutes or so chasing it around the dungeon (like I did on one of my other characters [or at least it felt like 20 minutes], though granted that character was much weaker than this one).

One question: Can trolls wear any armor at all? It was a bit frustrating seeing all this armor and not being able to wear any of it. They really don't need a lot, but it just feels wrong somehow to pass all the armor and armor shops by without getting any.

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
IP: Logged

BDR wrote:
For being so weak, though, they sure do blink an awful lot (so very annoying). I wanted to kill it and not spend 20 minutes or so chasing it around the dungeon (like I did on one of my other characters [or at least it felt like 20 minutes], though granted that character was much weaker than this one).

They're certainly too strong for first dungeon level, and I've seen someone fighting one on DL:1. They can do decent damage, and use melee/ranged weapons. They regenerate very quickly with each blink, and are very hard to hit. Resistant to poison, drain and fire, if I remember.
But they're cowards, too. Once you hit it one or twice, it blinks and you can go to a staircase or just around a corner. They aren't very persistent.

One question: Can trolls wear any armor at all? It was a bit frustrating seeing all this armor and not being able to wear any of it. They really don't need a lot, but it just feels wrong somehow to pass all the armor and armor shops by without getting any.

Trolls can wear mostly loose light armor like robes or animal skins. They probably can wear dragonscale armor, because even ogres can, but these are hard to find.
They can also wear cloaks. As for helmets, you can still use leather caps and wizard hats. It's not much, but every bit counts. Everyone can wear a shield, but shields are quite underpowered and have been such for a long time. They have mutliple restrictions and arguable usefulness, unfortunately. In some ways using a one-handed weapon and NO shield is better, because your attack speed isn't slowed, you can use weapon and extra unarmed attack at the same time, etc.
It's not apparent at first, but trolls have artificial bonuses to Dodging and Unarmed Combat. They're not bad with maces, though, so you can choose between maces and unarmed, both have their pros and cons.


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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-24-2006 08:31 PM]

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
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I am absolutely no good at roguelikes, but what about mummies?

Can't you theoretically just stumble around the top floor endlessly and level safely? I know it saved my butt in the labyrinth.

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
IP: Logged

Banjooie:
Crawl prides itself for its high munchkin resistance. It's very hard to abuse the system.
Yes, you can stay almost forever on the first level of the dungeon, and keep killing rats etc. If that's your definition of fun, go ahead. But it will take you awful amount of time to get anywhere this way. Another person can use this time to get at least several characters to level5, for example.
Keep in mind that crawl occassionally generates incredibly out of depth monsters. Once I was killed by an iron dragon on DL:1 ! Actually, it was a shapeshifter, but it doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

Unmodified crawl can be abused if you take a mummy to Ecumenical Temple and start worshipping Sif Muna. Unmodified Sif Muna is pleased whenever you cast a spell. The temple is perfectly safe for a mummy.
Dungeon Crawl SS changed this. Now Sif Muna is pleased by advances in your magical skills, and you can't raise them without influx of new experience (ergo:kills).
====================

The public server doesn't let you to read the manual, but I've found the official manual on the net:
http://yiff.mit.edu/crawl/docs/crawl_manual.txt

Some information is no longer accurate when compared to Crawl Stone Soup (mostly interface changes), but vast majority of it still applies and gives you a lot of insight. It's quite comprehensive, and a good read.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 12-24-2006 09:05 PM]

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
IP: Logged

I used one ID scroll and got 3 ID's out of it! I may have been praying at the time, but holy moly! Is this a random effect of pleasing Trog?

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
IP: Logged

BDR wrote:
I used one ID scroll and got 3 ID's out of it! I may have been praying at the time, but holy moly! Is this a random effect of pleasing Trog?

It's random, but I'm not sure what causes it. I had a theory that it might be high enough magic skills, but it doesn't seem true. Perhaps higher intelligence increases the chance ?
Well, the source code is open, so someone with more motivation could try to figure out.

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