Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North

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Ezlo
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Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Okay, I'll be the first to post a question for this hold.

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11-15-2006 at 04:47 PM

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jbluestein
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

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So I'm not stuck where you're stuck, but I'm still good and stuck.

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11-15-2006 at 04:51 PM

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Doom
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

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11-15-2006 at 04:53 PM

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Ezlo
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Hmmm... Okay, I can't seem to get him looping. He just likes to get himself stuck in a corner. I'll keep trying.

11-15-2006 at 04:53 PM

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jbluestein
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Doom wrote:

As for killing the guard...

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×Don't rush. Wouldn't it be convenient if you had more space for moving around the guard?

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11-15-2006 at 04:58 PM

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Doom
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

jbluestein wrote:
Am I close?

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11-15-2006 at 05:03 PM

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jbluestein
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Doom wrote:

jbluestein wrote:
Am I close?

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11-15-2006 at 08:19 PM

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larrymurk
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

I had the snake go:

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I timed it so the snake head was on the SE corner of the rectangle on:

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11-15-2006 at 08:34 PM

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Doom
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

Some additional specifics

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11-15-2006 at 08:36 PM

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jbluestein
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Nope, sorry, I don't get it. Here's my reasoning...where am I going wrong. 'Reasoning' is a lame word, since the whole thing has been mapped out, but it's what I have to work with.

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11-15-2006 at 09:49 PM

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Doom
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

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11-15-2006 at 10:02 PM

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larrymurk
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Yes, I believe one wrong assumption you had was that initially the snake is on its 1st horizontal preference turn. When a room starts, serpents are on turn 2 of 5 with horizontal preference.

Should everyone have a serpent timer for safe snake handling? Yes.

Where Erik came up with the whole snake logic thing is beyond me!!

11-15-2006 at 10:07 PM

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Briareos
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

larrymurk wrote:
Where Erik came up with the whole snake logic thing is beyond me!!

I guess it wasn't his intention to make such puzzles out of snake movement, but just to implement some logic that moves the snakes consistently (i.e. non-random) and, most important, repeatably.

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11-16-2006 at 08:18 AM

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Stefan
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

Some sort of explanation for the serpent movement can be found in the help files:

As they're so large, they do have trouble changing direction and can't make sharp turns. Even more concerning is that their mighty body muscles, which propel them along the ground, aren't capable of subtle correction. One of the things serpents have given up to grow to such a size, in fact, is any ability to fine-tune their movement. Their movements are chaotic and hard to predict, but not entirely random.

I don't know whether that text is written before or after the movement rules were invented, though.

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11-16-2006 at 10:08 AM

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jbluestein
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

larrymurk wrote:
Yes, I believe one wrong assumption you had was that initially the snake is on its 1st horizontal preference turn. When a room starts, serpents are on turn 2 of 5 with horizontal preference.

Should everyone have a serpent timer for safe snake handling? Yes.

Where Erik came up with the whole snake logic thing is beyond me!!

Ah. Something about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

With my misunderstanding corrected, the room is quite easy to solve.

On to Level 2!

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11-16-2006 at 02:58 PM

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Kevin_P86
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Ok, so I finally got the serpent onto the SE grass tile on turn 29 of the spawn cycle. However, I cannot get it to go out the grass area to the north.

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Suggestions?

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+++++[>+++++<-]>[>+++>++++>+++++<<<-]>.>+.>-------.<++++.+++++.

11-23-2006 at 07:30 PM

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Doom
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

Kevin_P86 wrote:

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×If I move to the East right away, it moves North, but then moves South at 4, and then East at which point I also have a problem.

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11-23-2006 at 07:52 PM

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Kevin_P86
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Doom wrote:

Kevin_P86 wrote:

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×If I move to the East right away, it moves North, but then moves South at 4, and then East at which point I also have a problem.
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×First part is correct: You move east so the serpent moves north.

But you have to go west after that to keep the serpent going: If you're on the eastern side, the serpent will try to move east (onto it's tail), and turns south because it's the next closest available direction to Beethro

Hmm... well I move east, west, and west from the position above. At this point, the serpent is on its vertical preference and moves south and then east no matter what I do.

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11-23-2006 at 08:38 PM

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Doom
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

If the serpent doesn't go all the way to the NW corner, you have the timing wrong. There's not really anything else left. Try readjusting - maybe show a demo of your attempt - and if it just doesn't work, I can dig up a demo...

11-23-2006 at 08:47 PM

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Kevin_P86
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File: DKtM Messenger 1 2N.demo (690 bytes)
Downloaded 94 times.
License: Public Domain

Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

I figured the timing must be wrong, but the timer says "29" and the serpent's head is on the SE corner of the grass. Is that not right?

Edit: Here's where I am... all 36 moves of it

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+++++[>+++++<-]>[>+++>++++>+++++<<<-]>.>+.>-------.<++++.+++++.

[Last edited by Kevin_P86 at 11-23-2006 09:56 PM]

11-23-2006 at 09:54 PM

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Doom
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

Yep. It's the timing. You're using a clock that counts down when we're talking about numbers when the clock counts up.

*cough* serpent clocks *cough*

You'll want one of turns '1' '11' or '21' in this case...

[Last edited by Doom at 11-23-2006 10:06 PM]

11-23-2006 at 10:05 PM

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Kevin_P86
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

hmm... ok, I guess that makes sense...! I guess it's back to the drawing board, then! Thanks, Doom!

My clock does have the serpent info on it (I'm using the colourful circle one...

)

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+++++[>+++++<-]>[>+++>++++>+++++<<<-]>.>+.>-------.<++++.+++++.

[Last edited by Kevin_P86 at 11-23-2006 10:14 PM]

11-23-2006 at 10:13 PM

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bomber50
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Could someone post a demo? I've tried over 100 times, read through all the hints, tried another 100 times and I still can't get it.

03-23-2007 at 09:23 PM

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bomber50
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

I've tried another 100 + times, and I still don't have it!

PLEASE POST A DEMO!

03-23-2007 at 11:41 PM

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Chaco
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

This is a really hard room.

Really, it's all about the timing. If you can't get the serpent in at the right time, then instead of just leading it in right away, delay a few turns and then lead it in. Not much else I can really contribute.

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03-24-2007 at 12:12 AM

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bomber50
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Well, 3 hours of no help.

Finally, I got it.

03-24-2007 at 12:36 AM

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subkel
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

Can some one explain how to kill the guard?

I can't seem to keep him from having his sword over the trapdoor at the bottom.

04-25-2008 at 08:17 PM

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Briareos
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

subkel wrote:
Can some one explain how to kill the guard?

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np: Nine Inch Nails - Ghosts II (Ghosts I-IV)

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R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

04-25-2008 at 09:58 PM

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larrymurk
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (+1)

The guard 'sees' the snake as a barrier, so you must get the snake to loop around the green area causing the guard to take the long route to Bethro.

Edit: I knew there was a reason I try not to answer help questions (either I explain the wrong thing or I don't explain it in a reasonable way). Hopefully Briareos helped

[Last edited by larrymurk at 04-25-2008 10:02 PM]

04-25-2008 at 09:59 PM

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JoolsC
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Re: Don't Kill the Messenger : Messenger 1 : 2 North (0)

I can't stop the snake from rotating in the right hand side, it won't go in the left. Please can someone post a demo of this bit, The snake is not going in the area at the right time. my clock counts down from 30 and I have a coloured serpent counter. What clock time and serpent movement should the snake be on when it hits the grey entrance square?

05-28-2008 at 09:41 PM

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