Announcement: To see an overview of all the holds in this forum, see this page. You cannot directly add your hold by attaching it here - you must get your hold approved by Hold Administrators. Check this thread for details.


Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Holds : Beethro's Teacher (Spring 2006 Smitemasters Selection)
Page 1 of 6
2345>>
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Your Rating
Average User Rating
Difficulty:
Overall:


8.4/10 (54 votes)
σ 1.94
Author Name:Henri Kareinen
Submitted By:Doom
Hold Name:Beethro's Teacher
Theme:Spring 2006 Smitemasters Selection
Author's Difficulty:
Number of Levels:8
Number of Rooms:106
Number of Monsters:1375
Version:DROD: Journey to Rooted Hold
High Scores:View High Scores
Hold Karma:22 (+25 / -3)
Poster Message
admin
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Rank Points: 8
IP: Logged
icon Beethro's Teacher  
A few words about myself first: I'm Henri At the moment a 17-year old Finnish boy finishing my first year in High School. I've been playing Drod actively for close to 2 years and have made several holds earlier during that time. Gradually getting more and more tricky.

Beethro's Teacher is a quite traditional collection of puzzles. Many of the rooms have been designed to require some kind of tricks to complete, and most of the time don't require very specific moves after that. The difficulty is generally quite high, and even though you can get several small hints in game, it's recommended that you use the Hints and Solutions on the forum when this isn't enough. Because, well... Let's just say that in many places it won't be.

I hope you'll be able to have fun with the hold. That's why it was made.

Credits:

The main share of room testing was done by Larrymurk, Stefan, Alneyan, TripleM, Andy101, AlefBet, Wallu and Tim. You'll miss surprisingly many important things when building rooms, and having a small army of experienced Drod players at your command makes fixing these so simple.

Let's not forget the Caravel Team either! ErikH2000 has had a huge influence on this hold. The entire storyline and most of final character speech, along with several additional rooms were done single-handedly by Erik. Truly an impressive effort. Mrimer is responsible for working with the sound files and adding them into the hold. Rather large task, if you think about it.

Voice acting:

Beethro Sten Ryason
Denfry Tony Porter
Sentry 1 & 2 Patrick Fisher

Cd Cover Art by Erik Hermansen

Special thanks to gamer_extreme_101 for being supportive in the early stage of the project. I must've gotten some motivation from him!

[Last edited by ErikH2000 at 05-24-2006 10:45 PM]
05-24-2006 at 10:33 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Birkoff
Level: Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 62
Registered: 04-20-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
Are you running the latest version???

____________________________
I'm not outnumbered, I'm just in a
target-rich environment

"A hero is no braver than an
ordinary man, but he is brave five
minutes longer."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
05-25-2006 at 12:20 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Doom
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3039
Registered: 07-05-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (+1)  
See this topic.

I had the same problem earlier with 2.0.14. Getting 2.0.14.1 and reimporting the hold should do the trick. This isn't possible without reinstalling Drod until the next patch comes out, though... (Except maybe if there's a hold update)
05-25-2006 at 12:25 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1306
Registered: 11-24-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
quote:
larrymurk wrote:
I'm not hearing any voice acting. I tried another hold and could hear voices. Any ideas?


I'm not hearing them eaither.

Then again, having pressed the mute button, I'm not that surprised. Also, Doom, you've already stumped me :angry
05-25-2006 at 12:51 AM
View Profile Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Hikari
Level: Smiter
Avatar
Rank Points: 437
Registered: 01-28-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
:~( I hear voice acting... but I can't even solve *one* of the rooms in Level *One*... And here I thought I was finally starting to get good at figuring things out in DROD...

____________________________
Caravel Official Holds Progress:
Click here to view the secret text

05-25-2006 at 01:28 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1216
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged
icon Bug? (+1)  
I think there's a bug on "Second Level: 2 South".
On the way back through this room, it's impossible to drop the red door leading to the tunnel...

Apart from that, it's a great hold so far.
Very great! :)
06-04-2006 at 07:22 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2928
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Bug? (+1)  
I know Mike was informed of this by someone via e-mail while the forum was down. I think he has an update ready and will probably upload it when he has the time.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams
06-04-2006 at 07:41 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1613
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Subject :O (0)  
And another hold that's probably really awesome, but I can't clear a single room.

Shazam.
06-04-2006 at 08:46 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1180
Registered: 01-08-2006
IP: Logged
icon Same here (+1)  
I hear ya brother. I see how to do several rooms, I just can't do it.

Wait! I did clear one room! With a wraithwing in it! YES!!!
06-04-2006 at 08:54 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1642
Registered: 12-23-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
Good grief -- I'm with the 'can't solve a single room' crowd. Even Perfection wasn't this tough.

I'm disappointed. I was expecting something a little more accessible. Ah well, maybe something will occur to me later.



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck
06-05-2006 at 03:03 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 4335
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
Yes, thanks to Wallu for giving me the heads up on that problem room. Schik will upload a fixed hold as soon as he can.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they
used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the
turn of the tide.
06-05-2006 at 06:20 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
gamer_extreme_101
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1927
Registered: 03-07-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
Heh...I was just thankful that the hold was Anyone-Edit for a bit during the beta, or I would have never seen past the first three rooms.

____________________________
--That guy with a million different aliases since he doesn't like this name anymore.

[Last edited by gamer_extreme_101 at 06-05-2006 06:56 AM : Clarification]
06-05-2006 at 06:56 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Doom
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3039
Registered: 07-05-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
quote:
jbluestein wrote:
Good grief -- I'm with the 'can't solve a single room' crowd. Even Perfection wasn't this tough.

I'm disappointed. I was expecting something a little more accessible. Ah well, maybe something will occur to me later.

I'm actually a little surprised people are finding the hold so difficult.

After 4 votes, the average difficulty is 'only' 7 brains while Perfection, for example, is at 8.5, voted by many more people.

As for accessibility, you can enter every room in the first level without clearing any others. This is more or less the case in others levels beyond the second, too. I was kind of hoping that'd solve the problem, but it's apparently not enough.
06-05-2006 at 09:09 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1450
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
Gahh! No! You can't do this to me, Doom! Not when I have an exam at the end of the week (no, I didn't realize the hold was up since the forum has been down). If I'm strong I'll keep away from the hold, and play it later... I've just played one room, and it was absolutely fantastic. Wonderfull humor in the dialog between Bethro and the teatcher in the long corridor. :thumbsup

____________________________
I would write some kind of signature if I wasn't so lazy. Oh, and right now I have a DROD RPG Let's Play plus a Let's Play of Troshian Tower going on :-)
06-05-2006 at 09:53 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Briareos
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3515
Registered: 08-07-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
quote:
Doom wrote:
After 4 votes, the average difficulty is 'only' 7 brains while Perfection, for example, is at 8.5, voted by many more people.


Well, if perfection was 8.5 I'd give this one 11.

Waaay to tedious - I've solved 3 rooms in the first level and am really warming up to the idea of quitting this hold, never to play it again[1]... :bomb

(aka Scr*w efficiency, I'm just not THAT efficient!)
quote:
As for accessibility, you can enter every room in the first level without clearing any others. This is more or less the case in others levels beyond the second, too. I was kind of hoping that'd solve the problem, but it's apparently not enough.

Errr... so instead of having 1 room you're stuck in you can be stuck in several of them at the same time? :D


[1] Okay, for low values of "never", probably. Still, I'm not sure people wanted that hard a hold for their money...

np: Yagya - Their Blood Is Black And Yellow (Will I Dream During The Process?)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009) :(
06-05-2006 at 12:40 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1216
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
Wohhhh...

This hold is genious puzzle solving. No more no less.
H&S is available if you're struggling but this hold has to be one of my favourites... if only for the fact that every room is surely impossible.

*Surely*

Oh... maybe not ;)
06-05-2006 at 01:13 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1642
Registered: 12-23-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
quote:
Doom wrote:
quote:
jbluestein wrote:
Good grief -- I'm with the 'can't solve a single room' crowd. Even Perfection wasn't this tough.

I'm disappointed. I was expecting something a little more accessible. Ah well, maybe something will occur to me later.

I'm actually a little surprised people are finding the hold so difficult.

After 4 votes, the average difficulty is 'only' 7 brains while Perfection, for example, is at 8.5, voted by many more people.

As for accessibility, you can enter every room in the first level without clearing any others. This is more or less the case in others levels beyond the second, too. I was kind of hoping that'd solve the problem, but it's apparently not enough.


Yeah, I try not to actually rate a hold until I've finished playing it. Sometimes things that seem really difficult are, well, not so much once you start to understand the sort of puzzles the architect comes up with.

But I've visited every room on the First Level (nine actual puzzle rooms that I can count) and I haven't been able to solve a single one. About the closest I've come is 1N, but, well, close can actually be very far away.

I'm definitely not in the DROD zone at the moment. Waiting for that brilliant flash of insight.

...5
...5
...5

so far, nothing.



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck
06-05-2006 at 03:31 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
eytanz
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2707
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (+1)  
The brains count is a really inaccurate judgement of difficulty since almost always the people ranking a hold are the ones who solved it. People who get stuck early on and don't progress may be the majority, but they are unlikely to affect the ranking.

Note that, effectively, this hold has been out for a very short time, since the forum was down for most of it. People were unable to get hints, and some people (such as myself) probably didn't download it before the forum was down. So even people who aren't giving up on the hold may not be anywhere near completion and ranking it.

While I had access to the beta version of the hold, I never downloaded it since I was too busy. The first time I saw this hold was today. So far, I've been in the first real level and like others, I haven't been able to solve a single room. That makes it somewhat harder than Perfection, where I solved my first room after an equivalent amount of time.

Edit - solved my first room (L1 2E). Wow. Brilliant, brilliant design. Incredibly difficult, but I have to admire the planning that went into it.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

[Last edited by eytanz at 06-05-2006 03:49 PM]
06-05-2006 at 03:38 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1216
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
quote:
eytanz wrote:
Edit - solved my first room (L1 2E). Wow. Brilliant, brilliant design. Incredibly difficult, but I have to admire the planning that went into it.

This surely is the point... *every* room is like this, and I stand in awe when I consider how much has gone into each one.
06-05-2006 at 04:08 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
eytanz
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2707
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (+1)  
Oh, I agree. This is an immensly impressive hold. I'm just a bit concerned about how accessible it is to the majority of the players. Since SmS holds are commercial products, it's not really fair for people paying for them if they can't appreciate them fully because they're stuck early on.

This isn't a criticism of Doom, who I think did a stellar job here. It's a problem inherent to the SmS system, which I think Erik will need to find a way to resolve.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!
06-05-2006 at 04:16 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1306
Registered: 11-24-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
I actually passed the first level o_O.

After the section where Denfry abandons you in the second level, I'm stucked.

[Last edited by mrimer at 06-05-2006 05:42 PM]
06-05-2006 at 05:01 PM
View Profile Show all user's posts Quote Reply
eytanz
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2707
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
quote:
coppro wrote:
After the section where Danforth abandons you in the second level, I'm stucked.


I think you're mixing up two of Caravel's most (deliberately) annoying characters :)

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!
06-05-2006 at 05:03 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Tim
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1975
Registered: 08-07-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (+1)  
quote:
eytanz wrote:
So even people who aren't giving up on the hold may not be anywhere near completion and ranking it.
Well, I have played most of the rooms (not finished all of them though), and I can say that I would rate the difficulty of this hold a 9. Let's say that I will rank this a little bit harder than Perfection (and is probably a bit too hard for me).

And still, I think it is a brilliant hold. To be honest, if I need simple puzzles, I can get them everywhere on the internet. This one, however, is really exceptional.

I wouldn't suggest this hold for first-time players, but if you've finished JtRH, Perfection and Secret Society, and you still need some really challenging puzzles, this one will give you great value for money.

Brilliant hold. But not for 12-year-olds. :thumbsup

____________________________
The best way to lose customers is to let little kids running loose on a forum with too many mod points.
06-05-2006 at 05:54 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1865
Registered: 09-10-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (+1)  
I had a quick look this morning (only played through the High Path so far) and the story looks to be intriguing. (plus, I'm trying to stab him a little bit.)

A bug? -> Stairs from Level One back to the High Path appear to have a temporary level description.

I'm increasingly of the option that Journey "to" Rooted Hold was misnamed :)

What would be cool is a graphics mod that replaces the guard talky face with Denfry's.


06-06-2006 at 05:33 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Doom
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3039
Registered: 07-05-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (+1)  
quote:
Rabscuttle wrote:
A bug? -> Stairs from Level One back to the High Path appear to have a temporary level description.
Whoops. This is the case with backtracking every stairs in the hold. I think it's most convenient to copy the level entrance descriptions to the returning-to-that-level descriptions. I'll do it after hold updating is back unless Schik wants some additional work.
quote:
I'm increasingly of the option that Journey "to" Rooted Hold was misnamed
Heh, would "Journey to journey to (journey to...) Rooted Hold" be more appropriate?
quote:
What would be cool is a graphics mod that replaces the guard talky face with Denfry's.
A graphic mod. Or maybe some management. :whistle
06-06-2006 at 09:18 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1865
Registered: 09-10-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (+1)  
quote:
Doom wrote:
quote:
Rabscuttle wrote:
quote:
What would be cool is a graphics mod that replaces the guard talky face with Denfry's.
A graphic mod. Or maybe some management. :whistle



I have just cut & pasted the CD cover into /Bitmaps/faces.png. :thumbsup

[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 06-06-2006 02:03 PM]
06-06-2006 at 10:32 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1642
Registered: 12-23-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (+3)  
quote:
Tim wrote:
And still, I think it is a brilliant hold. To be honest, if I need simple puzzles, I can get them everywhere on the internet. This one, however, is really exceptional.

I wouldn't suggest this hold for first-time players, but if you've finished JtRH, Perfection and Secret Society, and you still need some really challenging puzzles, this one will give you great value for money.

Brilliant hold. But not for 12-year-olds. :thumbsup


I think I have to disagree with you to some extent, Tim.

I agree that there is a place for Expert-level holds. I'm less convinced that the Smitemaster's Selection is in fact the place for these holds.

The SS Holds are (to me) one of the main selling points of CaravelNet memberships. If the goal is to get as many members as possible, then this selling point ought to be more accessible. Of all the CaravelNet members currently registered, what percentage do you think are up to the challenge of this hold? (I'm guessing it's a pretty small number.)

I consider myself to be a fairly good DROD player -- I can usually tell what's needed to solve a given room, even if I can't always make it happen.

But this hold breaks my brain. I've actually managed to solve one room on the first level (1N). So far the others are 'clearly impossible' to the point where I don't even find the process of trying to solve them enjoyable.

I accept that there will be holds like that (I'd better accept it, as there are plenty), but I'm not really happy about paying for the privilege of being stumped quite this badly, and I suspect that this is not the best way for Caravel to attract more members.

Henri -- I don't want to come off sounding like a sourpuss here. Your designs are really good. I really enjoyed Nightmare Dungeon, and your entry in the Death to Death contest was the only entry I felt merited a 10. But this hold, I'm sad to say, fails to excite me. I'm sure it's brilliantly designed. But I'm also fairly sure that I will never get to experience the brilliance of it as I can't imagine getting off of the first level without massive hints. Were it an independently-released hold, I'd just be shaking my head, saying 'Wow...too tough for me.'

This came out longer than it probably should have. Apologies in advance if anyone feels that the commentary is inappropriate.

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck
06-06-2006 at 02:42 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1613
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
I want to say more than /sign, here, to steal from the WoW Forums, but I can't. I'm just equally tired of the SS's basically being 'here is this awesome story which 95% of the playerbase will only discover by using H&S for every single room.'

I realize that there's good places for superhard holds, but christ on a pogo stick, can we keep it to about The Choice difficulty?
06-06-2006 at 07:29 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1076
Registered: 06-10-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (0)  
17.3 brains*, and a quality of 8.
The beginning was very nice, but the first 'real' level was too hard to be fun. Can't comment on the others, which is a shame, because what I saw looked good.
No way to finish now, as my brain ran away in protest.


*rounded to 10 for the rating


____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[Last edited by Pinnacle at 05-31-2014 10:24 PM]
06-06-2006 at 08:39 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Doom
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3039
Registered: 07-05-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Beethro's Teacher (+1)  
Just noting that the hold has been updated, fixing the bug in L2:2S that prevented you from completing the level.

If you didn't have voices, you could probably get them before the next patch is released by making sure you're running 2.14.1, and after that downloading the updated version.

(edit - I'll try to get the missing level entrance texts done now before too many people get this version)
(edit - done)

[Last edited by Doom at 06-11-2006 02:50 PM]
06-11-2006 at 02:42 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Page 1 of 6
2345>>
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Holds : Beethro's Teacher (Spring 2006 Smitemasters Selection)
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.