NaturalWay42
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 29
Registered: 02-17-2006
IP: Logged

Any demos?

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Easy Difficulty Lover.

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
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Yeah this room is one of the harder ones I've played, and I may be the only person who conquered it (last time I checked, it was the only caravel demo). Anyways, I'm not too keen on posting the demo as I don't think that counts as a "hint". Also, completing this room will only give you access to 2 more completable ones (one of which should really be started from another entrance which isn't accessible as the room north of here is unconquerable).

The best start I found however (which will let you kill all but 3 goblins safely) goes as follows:
Start facing W
N
Turn AC
NE
T AC
SE
NE
NE
NE
SE
SW
SW
T AC
T AC

Stay in that alcove and pick off the goblins. If you then advance correctly along the bottom, it's possible to kill all the golems and the remaining 3/4 goblins in the SE section of the room, allowing you to exit at the top of the diagonal wall. From there, it's a "simple" case of killing the tar - remembering you *have* to get rid of it all so only go for the eyes once the tar is completable. The wubbas will help in restricting growth, but will also make killing the eyes harder than it looks. I'd recommend killing the brains last, as brained wubbas tend to crowd less so you won't get stuck in a corner as easily.

Evil, evil room... Good luck!

[EDIT]

No secret tags used as this is just the start. I'll post the follow-up moves if required.

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[Last edited by Syntax at 05-13-2006 12:02 PM]

leefa
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 05-26-2005
IP: Logged

what is turn AC?

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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anti-clockwise.

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silver
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 915
Registered: 01-18-2005
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AC = anti-clockwise = Q by default

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cbemom
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 36
Registered: 10-11-2004
IP: Logged

Which entrance do you start from? There are three along the south edge.

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silver
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 915
Registered: 01-18-2005
IP: Logged

for the sequence of moves he posted, you enter from the west-most of the three entrances


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cbemom
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 36
Registered: 10-11-2004
IP: Logged

Okay, I can get almost to the SE corner, but one goblin won't move out of my way.
I'm at 3, with one golin at one and another about 2. No matter how I swing my sword, one of them gets me. How do I avoid getting to that situation?

Spoilers here are welcome - I've spent too much time on this room...

Enjoying the hold, though!

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

Well...

Putting this room's solution into hints is... impossible (beyond the hints I gave above). I *was* about to post my demo, but I'm the kind of person who's always refused to post that kind of thing. Then again... this room isn't really hintable - at all.

Plus, only 2 of us have solved it (caravel.net), so it would be unfair to unleash the solution to everyone (them there points were hard-earned I tell ya ).

The compromise goes as follows:
PM me with your email address, and I'll send through the demo. Please don't then post either mine, your or any other demo showing the solution - in fact, delete mine. Obviously feel free to offer hints to anyone who may request them for this room in the future.

If none of that sounds to austere, PM me

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1978
Registered: 10-23-2003
IP: Logged

*phew*

Make that three.

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[Last edited by RoboBob3000 at 07-01-2006 10:00 AM]

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1978
Registered: 10-23-2003
IP: Logged

Syntax wrote:
(one of which should really be started from another entrance which isn't accessible as the room north of here is unconquerable).

The room to the north of this one is conquerable, and you'll probably kick yourself when you figure out how to do it.

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

Agreed... it is now.
It wasn't when I posted originally though.

[EDIT]

That is to say... the room North of this one.

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[Last edited by Syntax at 07-01-2006 11:10 AM]

key-smiter
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 121
Registered: 06-15-2003
IP: Logged

OK, I've started on this room a few dozen times, should be enough to see it through, right? In my case, I can only make it a little way across the bottom towards the southeast corner when I have goblin problems -

I assume that the wubbas, in their little-brother way, are to guard my back. However, no matter what sequence of moves I use (sword swings, waits, etc.) at least one goblin will be right on my tail before long. So . . . if having a wubba horde as my shield isn't the key, what is?

I did experiment with going in other directions. The southwest corner seems particularly incorrect, since I can wake up many eyes and get trapped by wubbas.

Thanks -

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1978
Registered: 10-23-2003
IP: Logged

Well, this won't be much help to you, but the fastest demo goes west, while the other two demos go east. You definately need to go into this room with strong goblin manipulation skills and you'll come out with plenty of brained wubba practice. Patience, luck, short-term strategies, and the undo key will see you through it. After a couple of hours of work.

Edit: It is worthwhile to note that the wubbas don't need to be flush along the bottom the entire time you're in the southeast to prevent goblins from coming at you. Wubbas between you and goblins can confuse the goblins' brained pathmapping and prevent them from beelining towards you. Using this to your advantage is where most of the luck comes in.

Another Edit: Read the tar invariants article. If you should make it that far, it helps quite a bit to be able to know when it is safe to kill the mother early.

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[Last edited by RoboBob3000 at 07-02-2006 03:03 AM]

key-smiter
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 121
Registered: 06-15-2003
IP: Logged

Every now and then I see something here that makes me laugh out loud. So, in this kinda-help forum, I saw:

RoboBob3000 wrote:
Well, this won't be much help to you,

Makes me think I'm at work.

NaturalWay42
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 29
Registered: 02-17-2006
IP: Logged

key-smiter wrote:
Every now and then I see something here that makes me laugh out loud. So, in this kinda-help forum, I saw:

RoboBob3000 wrote:
Well, this won't be much help to you,

Makes me think I'm at work.

lol

Thanks for all the hints; this one is too hard for me. I guess I will have to use the PM offer (thank you).

This hold also is unfortunately locked in the building section.

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Syntax wrote:

Start facing W
N
Turn AC
NE
T AC
SE
NE
NE
NE
SE
SW
SW
T AC
T AC

You know, that sequence doesn't work for me - a lot of goblins get stuck behind the wubbas and once I get moving they end up behind me.

Not to mention that this sequence starts with a sword on a wubba and thus will be unscorable - this is not a room I'd want to play without getting a high score for.

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

You got the latest update? Facing West doesn't start with the sword on a Wubba.

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Er, sorry, that was a stupid typo.

It starts with a sword on a seep, which screws up highscores because of the "reject any 0-turn kills" bug.

Besides, it's a moot point since the solution doesn't work as written anyway, at least not for me. I gave up on this room and have used the warp to skip to level 4 - I guess I'll get back to it eventually, maybe after the scoring bug is fixed.

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

Actually, starting with a sword on a seep doesn't make the room unscorable. It's how I started, and it scored for me.

I may have made a mistake in the move descriptions but if need be I'll gladly double check. My solution is far from optimised anyway.

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Checking further it seems that I misremembered the bug - it's only if you solve the room in 0-moves that makes the spider reject demos (which means a lot of valid 1-turn moves can be rejected and thus the rooms remain scorable, plus rooms where you start on arrows will have scoring problems. Neither applies in this room).

But yeah, I still think there's something missing from your description of the solution.

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